Network Upgrade Needed !!!

[smalls001]

Hi All,

 

Hope you are all well..

 

I have just moved to a new school as Network Manager within a small secondary school (750 students including sixth Form). I have inherited a network which is about 6-7 years old. The network runs ok, but I want to consider upgrading the servers in preparation for Windows 7 clients. All clients (350 desktops) would need to be replaced or use RDP. No wireless yet!

 

My Question is

 

What would be your recommendation to SMT to moving forward. I would look at virtualising the servers, upgrading ISA to TMG, Upgrading Exchange to 2010. Would also like SCCM and Lync? Money is tight but would like best value not the cheapest.

 

The current servers are as follows

 

DC’s

Dell Poweredge 2500 2 x Intel Pentium III 993Mhz, 2Gb RAM

Windows 2003 Std R2 Roles: DC, DHCP, DNS

 

Dell Power 2800 2x Intel xeon 2.8GHz 4GB RAM

Windows 2003 Std R2 Roles: DC,DNS, SIMS,FMS

 

Dell poweredge 2900 2 x intel xeon 3.0GHz 4GB RAM

Windows 2003 std R2

File Server & Print server

Roles all users home directories

Space 1TB Raid

 

Power edge 2800 xeon 2.8ghz3Gb RAM

Windows 2003 std Application server

WSUS, Sophos Console

 

Proxy Server

ISA 2004

Not sure of spec it’s an old cream RM server about 8years old

 

Exchange

Server P4 2.4 GHz 3GB

HP Workstation xw5000 P4 2.4 GHz 3GB

Running Windows 2003 std

Microsoft Exchange 2003 with 1100 Mailboxes

 

 

Thanks in Advance for the Information

[cpjitservices]

First of all, I'd look at your switch gear and cabling and if it isn't already upgrade it all to gigabit and go from there.

 

What switches are you using ?

[CyberNerd]

First of all, I'd look at your switch gear and cabling and if it isn't already upgrade it all to gigabit and go from there.

 

What switches are you using ?

 

I do agree with this - The network is the infrastructure for the servers.

[smalls001]

The network is 1gb fibre between buildings with Allied Telesis AT-8350GB in each building giving desktops 100mb connections.

[glennda]

The network is 1gb fibre between buildings with Allied Telesis AT-8350GB in each building giving desktops 100mb connections.

 

Check what fibre is actually installed though - you may find its 50/125 and can do 10GB but the gbic's at each end are only 1GB.

 

Then take a look at some Decent quality switches for each Cab and something substantial at the core.

 

Then get 2/3/4 Hosts with lots of Ram (rams cheap as nowadays) either with lots of local storage or Shared Storage or some description and slowly build virtual machines and migrate data etc to them. I would start with the DC's and Exchange server 2008 R2 Exchange 2010 (they look the oldest machines). Then the file servers.

 

Are you using ISA as a firewall or just a proxy? I know you mention TMG but have you looked at alternatives? Smoothwall/Sonicwall? Reason I say is I would keep this physical if using a firewall so it can be between Router and network and the cost of hardware for ISA/TMG could be the same as a UTM machine from smoothwall/sonicwall etc

[smalls001]

The main core switch is Allied Telesis AT-9816GB. What switches would you recommend?

[smalls001]

Are you using ISA as a firewall or just a proxy? I know you mention TMG but have you looked at alternatives? Smoothwall/Sonicwall? Reason I say is I would keep this physical if using a firewall so it can be between Router and network and the cost of hardware for ISA/TMG could be the same as a UTM machine from smoothwall/sonicwall etc

 

Yes we are using the ISA as a firewall, I was looking at TMG as you can licence it under the EES from Microsoft and would like staff to be able to work from home. I heard that smoothwall is a good alternative but never used it can it.

[glennda]

Personally I'm an HP Procurve Fan but this is where things get complicated.

 

How many copper links will you require (to everything in server room) do you want to provide 10GB? Personally If I had the money I would put a 10GB card in each of the VM hosts so that each machine has a 10GB link to the core.

 

How many cabs do you have which have fibre links back to the core? Again 10GB or 1gb? 10GB would be better for future proofing (not much point doing 1GB now unless money was real real tight as it will be outgrown to quickly)

 

How much future expansion do you want? Then go from there. I have an HP 5406ZL chassis switch with 52 Fibre slots (40 Populated) and 92 copper slots at my core but that would be overkill for yourselves!

 

HP now have the 3com ranges aswell and can do stackable switches which are likely to be more value for you but i've not used them.

 

Then at the edge something like HP 2910-48G I use the 10/100 version of these and they are brilliant. (2610-48)

[glennda]

Yes we are using the ISA as a firewall, I was looking at TMG as you can licence it under the EES from Microsoft and would like staff to be able to work from home. I heard that smoothwall is a good alternative but never used it can it.

 

Give the guys a call @tom_newton might be able to help, although TMG license is cheaper you need to factor into the equation the cost of the hardware as mentioned above. You can do VPN via the smoothwall which is easy to setup/configure. I've also heard good things about Sonicwall firewall wise but Smoothwall's filtering is more comprehensive and we went for the all in one firewall/filter.

[smalls001]

The problem is the network hasn't had any money spent on it for 5 years or more. I have read reports from another network manager advising upgrades, but the same answer comes back we have no money. If they don't do the upgrade soon then then network will most likely be obsolete very soon. I would like to put a 2 year plan in place and the go ahead from SMT. I don't want them to say 'no money' as it needs it.

 

Would the network switches stand that in place stand up to the server upgrade and upgrade the switches in 12months.

 

Or

 

Would I be better upgrading the instrusture first, and in 12months replacing server.

[glennda]

Its a hard one to call with regards to the switching vs servers.

 

On one hand the servers you have are rather old in some cases and on the other you don't want them to turn around in a years time and say well it works now why do we need it!

 

If you are going to replace servers now get a 10GBE PCI card and you can run them temporarily over 1GB copper (HP DL360 G7 have 4 1GB links as standard) so that when the switching gets done its one less cost to then have to go back and by 10GBE cards for the servers.

 

Or buy the switching now and get enough 10GBE modules so that when the servers are done in 12 months you don't need to worry then.

 

How much money do you think you could get? 5k? 10K? 20K? You could probably do a lot with 20k, splitting 10k on servers and 10k on switching.

[IanT]

If you can let us know the cost\budget that will be a start block...?

 

Personally I would consentrate on getting the backend (Core\Edge Switching) to a standard, If you have a good budget I would recommend going with ProCurve stuff.

 

Cisco just costs too much and your paying for the name (IMO)!.

[smalls001]

How much money do you think you could get? 5k? 10K? 20K? You could probably do a lot with 20k, splitting 10k on servers and 10k on switching.

 

I was hoping to get around 20k per year, but other problem is the client side are mostly 5+ old. If I was to do it all servers and switches.

 

What servers would you use? You mention Hp DL360 G7's How many? and what would you virtualise?

[gshaw]

The network is 1gb fibre between buildings with Allied Telesis AT-8350GB in each building giving desktops 100mb connections.

 

Wow 8350GB's... we used to have those... used to have the "pleasure" of sitting next to them all day long... no wonder I used to get headaches! If they start packing up and you need spares let me know as we have some laying around along with GBICs, stack cables etc.

 

I'd get some Procurves in there first of all, will be money well spent and much better management than the AT stuff then go virtual. Take a look at Office 365 for your Lync features, saves running all that on-premise and gets you up and running straight away

[glennda]

If you get 20k pa my advice would be put the exchange in the cloud live@edu/office365/google apps that will be one less hassle and resource hog to manage.

 

Then 2 x DL360 (make sure you by the ones with 8 HDD slots) with Dual 6 core xeon 32GB ram and lots of HDD space then Virtualise the lot starting with the DC's to get them off the P3! You should be able to get some decent servers for about 7/8k

 

I would go for G7's now not Gen8 as HP will be trying to get the stock out and you should be able to get a good deal.

[smalls001]

Wow 8350GB's... we used to have those... used to have the "pleasure" of sitting next to them all

 

Plus all servers but one are in our office. I feel I have stepped back in time about 5 years.

[nicholab]

Migarate e-mail to google apps or @edu as this cost nothing.

Plan the money

Look at upgrading your internet connection

Virtualize the servers go for switch SAS storage.

New network Juniper stuff looks good with stacking.

Use VDI desktops and thin clients and show how much electricity can be save ask it that can go towards IT?

[IanT]

Migarate e-mail to google apps or @edu as this cost nothing.

Plan the money

Look at upgrading your internet connection

Virtualize the servers go for switch SAS storage.

New network Juniper stuff looks good with stacking.

Use VDI desktops and thin clients and show how much electricity can be save ask it that can go towards IT?

 

Last time I looked at the Juniper stuff it cost a utter bomb!

 

Get your self a couple of DL380 G7 Servers and build them up as a Hyper-V Cluster.

 

As I said in my previous post I would make sure the backend (i.e. switching) is up to standard first.

Edited April 13, 2012 by IanT

[nicholab]

I only going on stuff from other edugeekers

 

Another vote for Juniper switches, we replaced our entire network (which was previously Netgear) back in October with Juniper from edge to core, and we have got all the edges on EX2200s of various versions be they PoE or 24 or 48 ports and then have EX4200s in the core, including the 24 port fibre switch the do. The have a lot of features, including 10GBe options on the core (which we have taken for a link to our new lower school campus) so they are well worth your time.

 

I have been continually impressed at just how simple this Juniper hardware is, it just works I don't think I've done anything much bar a few VLAN tags since it went in. I have however monitored traffic and been impressed at just how much data we are chucking around and how nothing slows doing it!

 

We worked with @Net-Ctrl on the project, and they won the procurement process with the Juniper solution, and they were faced with competition from the following brands - Netgear, HP, Cisco and Extreme, these solutions were offered from various vendors, and based on the feature set required, support, installation and configuration the Juniper deal from Net Ctrl was the best on the table in both long and short term requirements.

 

So albeit a lesser heard name, Juniper have been a bit like Extreme in the past hiding in the core of places rather than in the monthly junk mail catalogues, they are certainly worth looking into and using. Without Juniper you wouldn't have Internet its big in the Internet routing, we are certainly converted to them and have been over the moon with the product and what it has done for our network, I was sceptical that a new switching setup could do so much for improving our systems but it did and I was impressed as were the staff upon the return after a week away.

 

I know @Soulfish also echos my feeling on Juniper having had them recommended by him to consider as I know he would give his arms and legs to rip out his Cisco and swap it for Juniper in his new school

[IanT]

If you got the money go for it people!

[smalls001]

If I was to replace the entire network, this is what to replace.

 

At-9816GB Fibre switch

1x 3com 2948

1 x AT8326GB

10 x At-8350GB

[glennda]

If I was to replace the entire network, this is what to replace.

 

At-9816GB Fibre switch

1x 3com 2948

1 x AT8326GB

10 x At-8350GB

 

I would replace the 3com, and the AT8326GB and At-8350GB with 2910's and something reliable at the core in a stack able configuration perhaps the 5500G series?

 

Although Juniper kit is nice and good quality kit but depends on cost at the end of the day

[Oaktech]

can I also wade into the discussion and sit in the ' upgrade the infrastructure, worry about the servers later' camp, with a +1 for the HP Procurve kit. With a particular +1 to the 5400zl (but check your SD cards folks!)

[glennda]

can I also wade into the discussion and sit in the ' upgrade the infrastructure, worry about the servers later' camp, with a +1 for the HP Procurve kit. With a particular +1 to the 5400zl (but check your SD cards folks!)

 

I love my two 5400zl but I think in this case it is overkill and probably too expensive.

[Oaktech]

I love my two 5400zl but I think in this case it is overkill and probably too expensive.

 

i don't know... 1 for a core switch doesn't say 'overkill', its says 'expandable'