garethEds Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 We are set to order a SAN tomorrow to go with our two new servers which will be used for HyperV. Now we've looked at HyperV (after decided to go with it instead of Citrix), and we are confident that we can setup the two servers. However - I've never set up a SAN before. Usually all of my servers have run off their internal drives but now this is different. Here is the spec: 2U Supermicro 12 Hotswap Bays, Redundant 1200W Power supplies, Dual gigabit LAN, KVM remote management, X1 intel Xeon E3-1220 3.2Ghz, 16gb DDR3 1333 ECC RAM, X10 450Gb 2.5" 10K SAS, 4 port 6Gbps SAS Raid Controller Inc Battery back up X1 PCi-E Quad Port Gigabit LAN Controller What do I do with it? LOL. I love this learning lark - never too old to learn. Gareth
Willott Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) It looks like what you have there is storage server hardware... probably looking to use iSCSI to pass data to your Hyper-V hosts. Have you decided on what OS you're putting on the storage hardware? From the looks of it you'll be sticking the OS and the storage on the same array using the RAID card (does the Supermicro case have a SAS expander backplane, otherwise you may be SOL - your RAID card is 4 port only, so you'd need expander on backplane to allow connection to all drive bays), so that would limit the usability/usefulness of something like nexenta (which uses ZFS - similar to the Oracle ZFS 7xx0 units). Was that spec put together by a supplier, if so, ask them what OS they're planning for, it's a little difficult to guess from the spec, my guess would be windows server type, or possibly a linux distro. Cheers Will Edited March 30, 2012 by Willott expanding on SAS expander
Duke Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Your SAN needs an operating system just the same as a server does, it's just normally a dedicated OS designed for storage systems (NetApp use OnTAP, Oracle Sun use Fishworks, some people are using FreeNAS or OpenFiler, etc.) What OS is going on this - is it being supplied by a company that pre-configures it or are you just buying the hardware? Assuming you've got the OS sorted out... Boot it up and the OS will normally ask you to do some basic configuration such as IP address, RAID configuration, etc. Once it's on the network you should have some kind of remote management, often through a web browser Figure out how you want to connect the storage to Hyper-V - usually either iSCSI or NFS Read the documentation on iSCSI/NFS for Hyper-V and your SAN Make a LUN (iSCSI) or share (NFS) and set up access to it (in general terms, this is allowing your Hyper-V boxes to see the storage share) Go onto the Hyper-V servers and add the storage via the SAN's IP address and details, then start using it to store virtual machines Those are 'generic' instructions. Obviously if you tell people the SAN OS, what storage protocol you want to use and your Hyper-V setup then someone might be able to give you better instructions. Cheers, Chris
localzuk Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 If you're used to Windows systems, I'd recommend getting a license for Windows Storage Server for it. However, if you're willing to branch out, there are many options as mentioned by Duke.
PotNoodleTech Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Gareth so are you building this SAN yourself from scratch? The supermicro chassis hints at self build
garethEds Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 No we are getting it supplied from servernation.co.uk as they were recommended by an Edugeek colleague. GJE
garethEds Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 If you're used to Windows systems, I'd recommend getting a license for Windows Storage Server for it. However, if you're willing to branch out, there are many options as mentioned by Duke. I am used to Windows OS more than anything. I think this would be the way forward for us. Gareth
jamesfed Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 If you're used to Windows systems, I'd recommend getting a license for Windows Storage Server for it. However, if you're willing to branch out, there are many options as mentioned by Duke. Microsoft has released the iSCSI target software for just normal Windows Server - if thats all you need then there is no need for full blown Windows Storage Server anymore.
garethEds Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 So we could put 2008R2 on the SAN and then get this target software? Where do I get that from? Gareth
jamesfed Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 So we could put 2008R2 on the SAN and then get this target software? Where do I get that from? Gareth Download: iSCSI Software Target - Microsoft Download Center - Download Details
localzuk Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Microsoft has released the iSCSI target software for just normal Windows Server - if thats all you need then there is no need for full blown Windows Storage Server anymore. So we could put 2008R2 on the SAN and then get this target software? Where do I get that from? Gareth Yes you can. However, there are advantages to using the full blown WSS has deduplication built into it, which Windows Server 2008 does not. So, if you use it for unified storage (ie. file storage as well as ISCSI LUNS), you can take advantage of that and reduce your storage needs overall.
Willott Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 If you're just using as an iSCSI target, it would seem a waste of a Windows license and the GUI would add unneccessary load onto the server (where you really don't need a GUI). It may be worth looking at one of the Linux based storage distros which may use a web interface for control (much lower memory/HDD/CPU requirement than Windows). If you look to do Unified Storage as @localzuk suggests, then Windows Server (or Storage Server) may be the best way to go. Cheers Will
PotNoodleTech Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 No we are getting it supplied from servernation.co.uk as they were recommended by an Edugeek colleague. GJE OK. IMHO you'd probably get better value buying a Dell through the welsh purchasing agreement. I am going all dell now through my LEA via the welsh agreement as frankly the hardware prices are too god to be true!!! My 2p.
garethEds Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 Okay - so the next question - which RAID is best on the hardware we are having. Our old RM (now non-RM servers) are Raid 5 with 73Gb SCSI drives in. But this box will have 10 x 4.5Gb drives in there. Our servers have 2 x 250Gb drives in there so can I assume that mirroring is fine there? Gareth
garethEds Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 I've been warned away from Dell on here as they fail. GJE
garethEds Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 OK. IMHO you'd probably get better value buying a Dell through the welsh purchasing agreement. I am going all dell now through my LEA via the welsh agreement as frankly the hardware prices are too god to be true!!! My 2p. I've PM'ed you
sonofsanta Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 With ten drives I'd be more tempted by RAID 6 - I've gone that way on my SAN. Even with a hot spare available for RAID 5 you still have a window during that rebuild where a second failure will knacker you. RAID 6 could survive that (unlikely) second failure and may help you rest easier at night. /waits to be proven wrong on write performance or something
Willott Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I would've said RAID10 - although having a Cached RAID card will provide some assistance with IOPs (to a certain point). If you're mainly using it for VMs, then RAID10 would be your best bet - go for as high random IOPs as you can get.
Duke Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I've been warned away from Dell on here as they fail. That's a very sweeping statement and I'm surprised you've heard it... For storage RAID6, for performance RAID10 (IMO). Chris
garethEds Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 That's a very sweeping statement and I'm surprised you've heard it... For storage RAID6, for performance RAID10 (IMO). Chris I read on here that some had had problems with Dell servers. I'll try and find the post - but it could be a needle in a haystack. As it happens at 10:15 this morning all funding was pulled back in. Frmo having some funds last night to having nothing this morning. Quite fed up at the moment. Months of work down the drain. Gareth
Duke Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I read on here that some had had problems with Dell servers. I'll try and find the post - but it could be a needle in a haystack. As it happens at 10:15 this morning all funding was pulled back in. Frmo having some funds last night to having nothing this morning. Quite fed up at the moment. Months of work down the drain. For what it's worth, there's lots of people in the same boat. I know someone who's had their virtualisation plans go back to management about five times because they keep changing their mind on funding. Keeping pushing it and explaining to management that it's a system you need if the school is going to grow at a healthy rate. If this becomes part of your network redundancy systems (failover, disaster recovery, etc.), then phrase it as a 'can you afford not to' buy it question. Re: Dell - I'm sure plenty of people have had bad experiences, but I'd argue there's even more who have had good experiences. Find yourself a good reseller (CCS Media) so you don't have to deal direct, and the hardware is excellent. NetApp are a top-tier storage provider but I've had bad experiences with their kit, and some people swear by HP support whereas I can't stand them. Swings and roundabouts. Chris
garethEds Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 For what it's worth, there's lots of people in the same boat. I know someone who's had their virtualisation plans go back to management about five times because they keep changing their mind on funding. Keeping pushing it and explaining to management that it's a system you need if the school is going to grow at a healthy rate. If this becomes part of your network redundancy systems (failover, disaster recovery, etc.), then phrase it as a 'can you afford not to' buy it question. Re: Dell - I'm sure plenty of people have had bad experiences, but I'd argue there's even more who have had good experiences. Find yourself a good reseller (CCS Media) so you don't have to deal direct, and the hardware is excellent. NetApp are a top-tier storage provider but I've had bad experiences with their kit, and some people swear by HP support whereas I can't stand them. Swings and roundabouts. Chris Thanks Chris. I'm off now to have a bacon,sausage and egg baguette. First one in ages but it will make me feel a bit better. LOL. Gareth
Duke Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 I'm off now to have a bacon,sausage and egg baguette. First one in ages but it will make me feel a bit better. LOL. Good plan, keep smiling.
garethEds Posted March 30, 2012 Author Posted March 30, 2012 Good plan, keep smiling. All sorted now. Half the funding has been given so I've had to re-jig. The virtualisation project has been put on hold (this was the first half of the funding). The second half is going ahead but the whole project has been agreed by the Governors. Virtualisation will now happen at 6 months. It gives me time to look at other stuff I suppose. Regards and thanks everyone for their help, Gareth 1
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