Suggestion for new imaging system

[BrendanRichman]

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents in case anyone is in search of a new imaging system...sure PXE is great, but it's also slow and sucks up valuable bandwidth (whole computer suite?).

 

Just take a USB external hard drive (non-powered is ideal!), and use Acronis True Image. Takes an image of a Windows 7 machine complete with a whole host of programs (you guys know how much software some schools use!) in around 10 minutes, and even less to restore the image.

 

The golden feature of Acronis which I personally love as I've used it many times in 'Universal Restore'. The ability to restore an image to dis-similar hardware by injecting drivers at the time of restore.

 

Sure it's not the easiest solution (PXE wins hands-down for that), but for pure speed and efficiency, it can't be beaten. Using 3-4 drives a whole suite can be cloned in around 2 hours...!

 

What are your thoughts guys (and IT associated girls)?

[glennda]

Used to do it and yes it worked but it was a Pita - The time taken to do it was to much.

 

I have it setup now using Fog meaning I can image a whole suite/rename/join domain and install software without even going to a client desktop.

 

With a decent back end network infrastructure Bandwidth shouldn't be an issue - I can do 30 pc's in about 3 hours without even moving

 

Plus its free

[Netwacky87]

My two cents: by multi-casting I can do a entire IT Suite in <15 mins...FOG and PXE wins hands down everytime in my book, aslong as you have a solid base image...cant loose! I dont even need to waste 2 hours of my life by swapping external drives around each machine...multi-casting on an entire IT suite = brilliant!

 

Just my 2 cents

[BrendanRichman]

Fair enough guys!

 

I will definitely look into FOG for our next suite installation (looking after 30-odd schools in Devon!), and I'm sure as you will know not all schools can afford top of the range networking infrastructure (which we always try to lean them towards!).

 

I will admit it's a bit of an old solution (we use it because it's foolproof), but it works! That being said, in the world of IT, everyone's always looking for new ways to do things and to use new ideas, right?

[glennda]

New ways which make life easier - I imaged 300 new machines over the summer was dead simple!

[BrendanRichman]

I will definitely suggest it to my colleagues (only a small business with a select few of us!)! If it works (and I've no doubt it doesn't - judging from testimonials in here!), then we may well be trialling it in some of our schools!

[SimpleSi]

I've not found a solution that works with all my different hardware and because most of my machines are wireless, the USB hard drive method usually gives me the least grief (except when the machine is sol old it doesn't recognise that an exteranl USB drive is a valid boot device )

 

I tried FOG for a while but it didn't play nicely with a couple of netbook models sos I abandoned it.

 

I actually tried a free product called RedoBackup today on a Win7 machine but it couldn't find the server share (found plenty of printers it decided were up to the job of holding an image )

 

Si

[BrendanRichman]

That's why I prefer doing my imaging personally (sitting at a machine), to make sure they work. With Acronis and Universal Restore, it's a bit trial and error, but eventually you will build an image that will work with every machine you put on it, without fail! At least that's how we do it!

 

The problem with programs like Ghost (and maybe FOG), is that it is hard to restore an image to hardware which is different to what the image was made with - you can't specifically tell the program what computer uses which hardware, and to inject what drivers into what computer. Using a USB hard drive and flash drive (or CD) to boot - it's surprisingly efficient!

[glennda]

Its alot harder with Laptops (as they are picky) but with desktops (especially with Win 7) drivers are not really have a problem - we have a folder on the local machine with a bunch of drivers in and Sysprep looks at these for drivers for the hardware.

[SmithR]

Creating new machines

Install Windows 7 via WDS, Inject drivers needed into WDS Windows 7 Image, Install Windows 7 via WDS = Done

 

How I have it setup is

 

Install Windows 7 via WDS (Because we have the MAC Addresses setup in AD on the computer accounts) this automatically names the machine, then GP to install third party software, then the third party software starts install all our packages MSI, MSU, Prism, etc. last thing it does is run a restart script and change Windows 7 logon wallpaper so I know it’s all been done and completed.

 

Completely all Unattended after the F12 boot into WDS

[aerospacemango]

Having just left a college, where I instigated the use of WDS instead of RIS, to a company where the images are on USB.....

 

I know which I prefer!

 

WDS wins hands down for ease AND speed!

[BrendanRichman]

It's unfortunate really, since we are a separate business looking after many schools ICT support, we rarely get the chance to experiment with new ways of doing things (apart from OS upgrades etc.) as we are always on the go!

 

I've not discussed this with my colleagues yet, but I feel the need to experiment with technologies and to find a more efficient way of OS deployment. The downside is, this will be down on my own time... (so probably won't get done - as I like to have a slither of free time sometimes *shocking I know in IT!*)!

[markcuk]

Surely a business selling soultions to schools should know this stuff or spend time learing new things.

[BrendanRichman]

Yeah I completely agree, and for the most part we do - but this time is spent learning new software or experimenting with new hardware etc. ...unfortunately I think our imaging system comes under 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. Like I said before, we do find it works really well, but I'm just toying with new ideas about how to image workstations that could make better use of our time (although it is unnecessary presently) and was asking this forum for their input. It is definitely not because we are generally 'behind the times'!

[Kisageru]

How do you use acronis without having a huge file that's like 20GB in size? Surely the image should be about 3-4gb max? However I've been unable to do this. Anyone have an idea?

[gshaw]

SCCM wins every time for me, once I've got my image set up and captured I just sit down, click a few times to target which machines and want and let them get on with it. Complete reporting straight out the box so you know what's done and what isn't with no need to start anything manually on the client. Add that to all the other systems management and software deployment goodies you get with the product and low price on EES you can't lose imo

[zag]

We do it using external disks as well. We use external SSD drives which are blazingly quick.

 

Acronis is awesome.

 

I never really do entire suites just 1 or 2 computers.

[BrendanRichman]

No, that's about right! It barely compresses the image, which oddly enough - actually makes it backup and restore faster, since it doesn't have to compress the files on backup, and de-compress on restore. Obviously it depends on the image itself and what it holds, but 20gb for a normal school installation sounds about right (you'd be surprised at how much software can't be deployed via GPO or run from the server...!).

[MarkBerridge]

I personally use WinPE 3.1 and Gimagex, creates and restores images fairly quickly and its free.

[apeo]

Fog here too. Was a combination of Fog and Ghost from usb or network and Ghost before that but now totally Fog after a few issue with older laptops have been resolved (related to pxe boot). Dont have problems with drivers given the majority of our computers/laptops are on Win 7 now. We only have different images because different computers/laptops have different software on it so we have groups of software based on location.

 

I use to find going round each computer/laptop with a network boot disc to kick off imaging (back in the days when we used Ghost) annoying so imaging from USB would be a real PITA IMO given the that theres 500+ devices here. Now all we do for computers is tell Fog they need imaging, and for laptops its a little bit more work in that we have to attach the laptop to a switch and then turn them on but still ALOT less pain the doing them manually/individually from USB.

 

@BrendanRichman: how long does it take you to do a lab of say 30? and does your company charge for the time you spend there or is there like an annual fee which includes this service and it doesnt matter if you spend a day or a month the annual charge is the same?

[BrendanRichman]

Sorry @apeo, only just seen your question! To clone a whole suite (or lab) would take us around 2-3 hours. That's with 3-4 drives, and 2 of us doing it. I'm not certain on how we charge labour, but I do believe when we do new installs of suites etc. it is usually charged at a set rate, based on the job. Most schools we service have a monthly contract with us, ranging from 4 hours a week (which is actually a surprisingly large amount of time to maintain some schools) to 2 hours a month (again, they cope (due to budgets I guess)!), to ad hoc support where we visit only when required. No two schools are the same infrastructure-wise or in the level of support they need, so we have to taylor it specifically to their needs! Hope that's cleared everything up for you!

[apeo]

@BrendanRichman: Its cool, I've been out of the country so didnt see your reply lol. Anyway, its all very interesting and thats not bad time to complete a lab of 30 given that giving you have to do 4 batches i.e. image a set of 8 then move onto the next 8. I would assume each unit is imaged in ~ 30 mins - 45 mins, which includes the time you have to manually start the images. Our images arent that quick but our images are huge, I think our main images are ~ 30 GB. That said I would still say that you could benefit from an imaging solution like Fog and its possible you could get the whole suite of 30 do in the same time but with only 1 techy. The possible issue with Fog is that you will need the MAC addresses of each machine.

[mbrunt]

Using a usb disk to clone has gotta be classed as very very old school these days. And I doubt its a supported way of deploying the Microsoft OS. Presuming you don't even sysprep your machines if your using USB?

[PSLeep]

I personally use MDT with WDS - SCCM if the school have a license for it - much simpler than FOG/Ghost and especially easier than wandering around an entire room full of PCs with a few USB disks - i like to save my legs and do everything the easy way!

[cpjitservices]

MDT, WDS and FOG here