Coding - The new Latin

[Dos_Box]

A BBC News article on how we are not turinign out enough coders: BBC News - Coding - the new Latin

 

The campaign to boost the teaching of computer skills - particularly coding - in schools is gathering force.

Today the likes of Google, Microsoft and other leading technology names will lend their support to the case made to the government earlier this year in a report called Next Gen. It argued that the UK could be a global hub for the video games and special effects industries - but only if its education system got its act together.

 

[glennda]

I think this is partly to do with the majority of IT Teachers (I'm not teacher bashing here) are not coders themselves/lack the knowledge of coding, so when they teach students even basic things like web design it is all done through the gui in dreamweaver for example then the students actually modifying code.

[sted]

I think this is partly to do with the majority of IT Teachers (I'm not teacher bashing here) are not coders themselves/lack the knowledge of coding, so when they teach students even basic things like web design it is all done through the gui in dreamweaver for example then the students actually modifying code.

just to take the specific example of web pages if its just straight html im not sure there really is much need to code direct you may as well design the page like you make a publisher/powerpoint document (says someone who only last week hand coded a quick website).

 

but being taught to use c++ c# or whatever probably isnt a bad idea if nothing else it teaches logical thought

 

as you said though i suspect the problem is teachers themsleves in most cases have no idea how to code for example someone was shocked when i opened up a dos prompt to try and diagnose a problem they said something along the lines of wow i haddnt seen that in years diddnt think it was still there

[Dos_Box]

I think one barrier that the UK has encountered is that no one can decide what language should be taught as the 'default' as many schemes that have started on a low-key basis to teach coding all use a varity of coding platforms. I'll bet if we asked you all on your opinions we'd be mired in deep argument within 6 posts.

[LosOjos]

I'll bet if we asked you all on your opinions we'd be mired in deep argument within 6 posts.

 

Them's fighting words!

 

Agree with what's been said, most IT teacher's can't code themselves so couldn't teach it effectively. Hopefully, that will change!

 

As for a language, I think Java is a good one: pretty much universal (as in, works on pretty much any platform), OO, classes, not as complex as C++.

 

Failing that, C#.net is [in my opinion] incredibly easy and could provide a good spring board in to other languages for those that are interested...

 

The first language I learnt was DIV Games Studio - anyone remember that?

[localzuk]

Ooh! ooh! Ada!

 

Nah Java or C# I'd say, leaning towards Java preferably... As it is easier to teach using Notepad and the importance of knowing what you're doing outside of an IDE.

 

Getting coding into schools will be a massive task to be honest over here, where do you start?

[Oaktech]

as someone who got taught java, and failed it miserably, i hate the language with a passion... that said, there is a huge arguement for it as it is so widespread.

 

The problem with ICT as a subject at the moment seems, from the casual observers point of view, that it is just a course on how to drive MS Office, and the internet. could we not implement the ECDL as a necessary requirement for every student aside from ICT and then actually teach some computing skills like java, sql, asp/php etc as the computing course?

[sonofsanta]

I'd say language is not overly important, and if anything, teach them two or three similar OO so they learn flexibility... I never settled on any one language - having played about in AMOS Pro, Blitz Basic (those two at 8 years old, reading out of a magazine), Java, VB.Net, C#, ASP.Net, PHP, I think in terms of what I want to do and look up the relevant terms, rather than thinking "I would do this like X in Java" and getting caught up in one language's paradigm.

 

Although Python would be a good starting point

 

Be interesting to read the report they are promising for release later today, as well as opinions on it here.

[Soulfish]

Ooh! ooh! Ada!

 

You laugh but my uni used to teach Ada95 (well they still do ) to first years to teach the basics of OO programming. Personally I'm a big believer that it doesn't matter what language is taught, it should be more about getting the basics of programming and languages correct.

 

First teach the basics (conditionals, algorithm design, big O notation/complexity theory) in a language that very few (if any) of the students will have used to remove any bad habits then move onto more standard (C#, Java, Python etc) languages as you move into more complex situations.

 

Of course if I was picking languages then it'd all be Scheme, Haskell and a bit of Ada for those in detention

 

The biggest problem we have is that we don't have teachers with the required skill set to teach programming. Programming its self isn't hard - teaching it well without bad habits however is, and one thing we don't want to be doing is churning out a load of students that know how to program badly.

[glennda]

I think the language isn't important, its getting people into the mind frame of code rather then just using a gui - yes it works but teach them the code and they can use the skills they learn from just coding basic HTML and transfer it across to other platforms. But simple things like needed to open and close things etc

[localzuk]

Oh, my data structures lecturer used to give his examples in Ada. Everyone in the class hated him for it.

 

The reason I say Java is because the basics of programming are easy to teach in it, and the code is nice and clean. The key is to teach it in such a way that they learn how to program, but don't pick up bad habits (ie. VB.net - that is a very bad habit for someone to have).

 

We can say that it shouldn't matter which language, but it does - as kids need something simple to pick up and learn. Throwing them in with Fortran is all well and good, but it might also put them off the entire concept from the beginning. If I had started programming with c for example, I would have given up straight away - I hate c.

[JJonas]

What about Ruby?

 

Ruby Programming Language

 

Ruby on Rails

 

Wasn't this being touted as a good beginner language and a stepping stone for other languages?

[X-13]

As for a language, I think Java is a good one: pretty much universal (as in, works on pretty much any platform

 

A challenger appears!

 

Binary.

[Soulfish]

Oh, my data structures lecturer used to give his examples in Ada. Everyone in the class hated him for it.

 

The reason I say Java is because the basics of programming are easy to teach in it, and the code is nice and clean. The key is to teach it in such a way that they learn how to program, but don't pick up bad habits (ie. VB.net - that is a very bad habit for someone to have).

 

We can say that it shouldn't matter which language, but it does - as kids need something simple to pick up and learn. Throwing them in with Fortran is all well and good, but it might also put them off the entire concept from the beginning. If I had started programming with c for example, I would have given up straight away - I hate c.

 

Ohh for sure - the language needs to be fairly simple to get started. Starting with C or Ada would just be a nightmare! One of the reasons I like Scheme (providing you have a good text editor with bracket matching ), although Python, Ruby and Java are all fairly simple to get started with

 

Interestingly it was our data structures and algorithms course that was also taught in Ada!

[JJonas]

A challenger appears!

 

Binary.

 

 

also

 

http://www.codecademy.com

[sonofsanta]

(providing you have a good text editor with bracket matching )

 

Notepad++ has you covered there - bestest text editor in the world. <3 N++

[localzuk]

Ohh for sure - the language needs to be fairly simple to get started. Starting with C or Ada would just be a nightmare! One of the reasons I like Scheme (providing you have a good text editor with bracket matching ), although Python, Ruby and Java are all fairly simple to get started with

 

Interestingly it was our data structures and algorithms course that was also taught in Ada!

 

Yeah, I think they must be all sadists or something. Never saw a lecture hall with so many people playing Quake at once before...

[Soulfish]

Notepad++ has you covered there - bestest text editor in the world. <3 N++

 

One of the first things that gets installed on any of my systems .

[K.C.Leblanc]

where do you start?

 

10 print "Hello World"

[X-13]

10 print "Hello World"

 

Incorrect.

 

First things first. You need to make sure the 3 laws are clearly stated.

 

The 4th and 5th laws are optional.

[localzuk]

I think we might have all missed an important health and safety issue first too - do we really want to be teaching our kids to get hooked on coffee?

[Oaktech]

I think we might have all missed an important health and safety issue first too - do we really want to be teaching our kids to get hooked on coffee?

 

irrelevant. they are mainlining monster/redbull by age 12 anyway, coz it looks cool.

[LosOjos]

I think we might have all missed an important health and safety issue first too - do we really want to be teaching our kids to get hooked on coffee?

 

Coffee? You're kidding aren't you? Nowhere near enough caffeine in that, you want to get yourself some caffeinated energy drinks!

[pcstru]

I'd say language is not overly important, and if anything, teach them two or three similar OO so they learn flexibility... I never settled on any one language - having played about in AMOS Pro, Blitz Basic (those two at 8 years old, reading out of a magazine), Java, VB.Net, C#, ASP.Net, PHP, I think in terms of what I want to do and look up the relevant terms, rather than thinking "I would do this like X in Java" and getting caught up in one language's paradigm.

I'd agree with that. 'Programming' is a skill that is almost independent of language. Once you know how to program, you can pick up a new language very quickly.

Although Python would be a good starting point

One of the neatest programming things I've seen recently is processing. Free, multiplatform (java based - but abstracted, you can even use it to write phone apps), very very easy to produce programs with pretty visual output - which might (should) be attractive in getting the interest of kids.

 

But as others point out, even if we decided we must teach programming as a skill, we will need to find people who can teach it. Most of the current crop of ICT teachers wouldn't know a pointer from a hash.

[X-13]

Coffee? You're kidding aren't you? Nowhere near enough caffeine in that, you want to get yourself some caffeinated energy drinks!

 

I run coffee through a percolator multiple times. It gives it the look and consistency of tar.

 

But the smell alone is enough to wake someone with Kleine-Levin syndrome.

 

Most of the current crop of ICT teachers wouldn't know a pointer from a hash.

 

I'd have to disagree. A lot of teachers I've met know quite a bit about hash.