SIMS Learning gateway or Bromcom sd products?

[base2base]

Hi should I advise my customers to go for Bromcom or SLG?

[irsprint84]

SLG is great, but do you have 10k?

[jdoyle]

SLG is great, but do you have 10k?

 

and do the clients have SIMs?........

 

SLG is a lot of money for not much value for parents IMHO.

[glennda]

i've been told to look into the moodle intergration as apparently that is alot easier/cheaper then SLG

[mb2k01]

I use Bromcom Teachers' Web Folder and My Child At School - i was faced with a very similar comparison/decision which was fairly exhaustive by the end.

Capita almost got the business via consortium pricing, but ultimately didn't get our cash. A big bonus for as at the time (due to staffing / in-house knowledge) was the fact that Bromcom isn't SharePoint based and Capita (and a lot of the other solutions out there) are.

 

We had a few minor issues in the very early days but their support were fantastic. Now it just 'works' and I rarely get complaints/support requests from staff.

Edited June 15, 2011 by mb2k01
Considered that a line of original post may be unwise to post, as is more opinion than fact

[matt40k]

For me, they both cause me problems and both are expensive. SLG was designed to give parents access really and it's very good at it, almost too good in some cases. So depends on costs and the schools requirements, it's not a simple pick product A.

 

Unfortunately I've been finding SMT has been buying products then worrying about will it work on the network later. If the sales people in question are reading this, I would like a few bottle of cider The latest was the network manager at a school phoning up asking if I know anything about SIMS Emerge, I was thinking they had a demo, turns out they had purchased it and prior to that it was WebFolder at another school. Not good when you've been say you need a new server ASAP.

[resin1]

I use Bromcom Teachers' Web Folder and My Child At School

 

I assume you mean - both linked in to a SIMS MIS environment, as per the OP implied scenario? If so, it’s interesting to hear that SIMS Direct interface is actually working really well. Although, like a number of other Capita partners, Bromcom are well proven in their use of Capita's API's to create products that interface to SIMS well, when it comes to a teacher interface that will be used day in day out for 2 way data, my only worry would be the old adage of - are you safer relying on the MIS vendors own web interface that they develop and guarantee to be compatible with the MIS, as opposed to a 3rd parties interface that is implemented "at a distance" using provided API's. It could be that both use the same API's. It could be that the latter cannot do some of the things that the former does, because in fact the MIS vendor can use some internal stuff that they don't publish to partners. An example with TWF is the stated support for data entry into both SIMS AM & Profiles. I've not seen it demonstrated, but I do wonder how much of the Profiles work can be done through their web interface compared to how much can be done within SLG.

 

Anyway - in terms of the OP, really depends what problem the customer is trying to solve - purely teacher web based usage or parental engagement or both? And what are the real priorities within any of that usage. And of course the technical environment/preferred technologies/skillsets with the customer.

 

Both appear to be capable solutions and should do a job. But you/they probably need to go visit some users of each to form a better opinion.

[mb2k01]

@resin1 I have to admit I've read your reply a couple of times and not quite sure what you are asking!

We use do use TWF and MCAS inside of a SIMS enviroment yes.

In terms of API's, and I could be wrong (and happy to ask Bromcom the question if it interests anyone), I don't believe they are technically using any.

 

SLG or any of the other SharePoint products all use API's / WebParts to communicate to and from SIMS. The Bromcom solution isn't built on SharePoint - it is a local IIS site with a backend SQL database. As far as I am aware, their database simpy syncs data from the SIMS database which then makes it available to TWF / MCAS.

When teachers or parents access the system they go via https to the Bromcom hosted gateway, then their servers send requests down to our local Bromcom server (which is actually a VM now) and its own SQL database (rather than the 'SIMS' databse itself) returns appropriate information thought the secure connection.

 

Again, the above is how I am fairly sure it works. If anyone wants more info, I'll happily give one of the technical team a shout so that they can come and correct me!

[resin1]

Thanks for the detail - that’s interesting. My only question to you was actually the clarification that you are using with SIMS as the MIS, as opposed to Bromcom as the MIS. The rest was more referring to the OP dilemma.

 

As it goes, what you describe isn't how I assumed they structured things. My assumption was that they simply had some sort of process at the SIMS server end that talks to SIMS (via the Capita API's or whatever they call them), and therefore acts upon retrieve/input requests that come from the hosted gateway. I didn't realise that these actually go to their own local database, which is only a mirror (same approach they have always taken with their registration system).

 

Bit less than SIMS Direct then ;-)

 

But who cares if it works - provided it always mirrors 100%.

[bossman]

@base2base:

 

We use this: TASC Software - excellence in education

 

£1 per pupil per annum and is just what the doctor ordered for parental access.

 

The company are friendly and they will actively engage with you to produce what it is you require.

[matt40k]

I know Bromcom uses, or at least did use, a separate data, it stored all the lesson marks then it would only sync the AM\PM with SIMS as Capita wanted mega bucks for a lesson monitor license that all we need it for was storing the lesson marks in the SIMS database. Pain for reporting, but for the amount of money it saved. Well until laptops for teachers came in and the grey pads didn't look so good value.

[Bromcom_John]

Hi all,

Want to set a few things straight before any misunderstanding of the products become canon

 

The SD products are exactly that SIMS DIRECT.

All of the active SIMS data is retrieved from and then returned to the active SIMS Database. There is no data storage of any SIMS information on any secondary database.

The mini database that comes along with the SD products is to enable the storage of certain software configuration items and user preference details.

 

As for the use of API's, well under the OFT Voluntary assurance agreement we are supplied the same API components that Capita use themselves so there is no risk of them becoming obsolete unless Capita decide to completely rewrite everything from scratch and I think there would be some pretty serious lead time on any developments of that scale

 

Hope that answers any queries being raised, and feel free to ask further if you need to.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Bromcom_John
useless fat typing fingers!

[Bromcom_John]

I know Bromcom uses, or at least did use, a separate data, it stored all the lesson marks then it would only sync the AM\PM with SIMS as Capita wanted mega bucks for a lesson monitor license that all we need it for was storing the lesson marks in the SIMS database. Pain for reporting, but for the amount of money it saved. Well until laptops for teachers came in and the grey pads didn't look so good value.

 

That's so Last decade Matt!!

This is how the eRegistration product used to work.

[number34]

I fully agree with bossman about TASC. We use their PARS application for lesson registration and INSIGHT for online reporting to parents. The first writes all data back to SIMS and the second pulls it out of SIMS, this does not depend on any overnight refreshes either. It does cost approx £1 per pupil per application per year but we did buy a new server for INSIGHT. The only thing we do not have is teacher access to SIMS but that is not an issue here at present.

[Bromcom_John]

Hi should I advise my customers to go for Bromcom or SLG?

and my answer to this question should be obvious, but you're here to solicit other members opinions, not mine

[matt40k]

That's so Last decade Matt!!

This is how the eRegistration product used to work.

 

Cheers for making me feel old!

[Sivadam]

Hi should I advise my customers to go for Bromcom or SLG?

With all the new functionality that is now on SLG:-

• Online Reports in PDF format for AM7 and Profiles7 available to Parents Pupils and Staff.
  
• Report Card direct from Staff Class Register and available to Parents rtc
  
• Direct access to Beh/Ach Incidents from the Staff Class Registers etc etc
  
• and with the future in mind (Homework, Exams, Options etc etc)
  
• and with access for Staff, Pupils, Parents (maybe even Governors!?)
  

There can only be one answer:-

SLG everytime!

[Bromcom_John]

• Online Reports in PDF format for AM7 and Profiles7 available to Parents Pupils and Staff. - MCAS, Check!
  
• Report Card direct from Staff Class Register and available to Parents rtc - MCAS,Check!
  
• Direct access to Beh/Ach Incidents from the Staff Class Registers etc etc - MCAS and WebFolder, Check!
  
• and with the future in mind (Homework, Exams, Options etc etc) - Check (already in MCAS), check (next release of MCAS IIRC), check (also next release IIRC)
  
• and with access for Staff, Pupils, Parents (maybe even Governors!?) - Check, check, checkedy check.
  

 

 

Just keeping the playing field level.

[resin1]

Thanks for that John. Much as I expected.

 

Usual moral of the story - there is rarely ever one answer to a problem, and the marketplace always needs choice!! ;-)

[vikpaw]

I assume you mean - both linked in to a SIMS MIS environment, as per the OP implied scenario? If so, it’s interesting to hear that SIMS Direct interface is actually working really well. Although, like a number of other Capita partners, Bromcom are well proven in their use of Capita's API's to create products that interface to SIMS well, when it comes to a teacher interface that will be used day in day out for 2 way data, my only worry would be the old adage of - are you safer relying on the MIS vendors own web interface that they develop and guarantee to be compatible with the MIS, as opposed to a 3rd parties interface that is implemented "at a distance" using provided API's. It could be that both use the same API's. It could be that the latter cannot do some of the things that the former does, because in fact the MIS vendor can use some internal stuff that they don't publish to partners. An example with TWF is the stated support for data entry into both SIMS AM & Profiles. I've not seen it demonstrated, but I do wonder how much of the Profiles work can be done through their web interface compared to how much can be done within SLG.

 

I did a trial of TWF a couple of years back, and it was really good. It does use the same API that Capita are supposed to use. Yes Capita have the inside hand and a head start, however at the time, the TWF offering did more than SLG and they were already planning to keep up to speed. The difference was that it actually looked better, and neater, and easier to manage.

 

I think you have to look carefully at the cost (total overall) and include training and development in that. We're going down the SLG route, but the time it's taken is ages, and it's going to cost us a bomb in the first 5 years, however, we'll end up with a full blown intranet/extranet, portal the works. We're building a car, but could have rented a decent vehicle for much less.

 

TWF can just be plugged in and working, require very little maintenance and is fully supported. SLG requires you (the school) to maintain a sharepoint server the related hardware, and the technological know-how to keep it up-to-date, running and secure. You have to consider more than just what you can use it for.

 

Also, as has been shown, when the feature set is the same or similar, you can look at how well something is done. The look and feel of TWF works off the bat, whereas SLG can do the same but it will take a lot of dev'ing, or paying someone to pretty it up.

 

The point i wanted to make, in response to your post was simply, i don't think you need to shy away from 3rd party apps. In fact they are very innovative and can do some really funky things.

 

A few years ago at BETT, i saw some amazing display boards, for putting in school foyer / staff room. They utilised Capita SLG webparts and some custom webparts + coding to pull data out of SIMS and create an Awesome display board for staff and visitors. Something you wouldn't dream of when you think of SLG and it's plain (my opinion) interface.

[PhilNeal]

SLG can be hosted by the school, LA or Capita.

 

A school would host SLG if it wanted to develop Microsoft Learning Gateway as part of a holistic experience probably as a subsitutute for a VLE, document management system, its own web site and email system. Many LAs host SLG and that gives the advantage of shared infrastructure costs and of course parents only need one log in across the whole LA - it also gives the other advanatgaes. Capita can host SLG and do most of the management for you and this saves schools the infrastructure costs.

 

SLG can take on your school look and feel - I agree that our original web parts were "workman like" but things have come a long long way since then.

[base2base]

With all the new functionality that is now on SLG:-

• Online Reports in PDF format for AM7 and Profiles7 available to Parents Pupils and Staff.
  
• Report Card direct from Staff Class Register and available to Parents rtc
  
• Direct access to Beh/Ach Incidents from the Staff Class Registers etc etc
  
• and with the future in mind (Homework, Exams, Options etc etc)
  
• and with access for Staff, Pupils, Parents (maybe even Governors!?)
  

There can only be one answer:-

SLG everytime!

 

Hi

 

It seems that SLG is just sharepoint dressed up from Capita? I think the schools I have spoken to about Bromcom SD products have a much richer output. It also appears that SLG requires a lot more technical know how, not much use for a primary school with a limited budget.

 

The Bromcom SD products can report on the existing sims.net database. It seems that schools are like sheep they will follow the wrong route sometimes. Just because its Capita does not mean you are getting a quality product.

 

I am going to advise my contact to look at the Bromcom soloution and report back to this forum how fast they can have this up and running.

 

We are moving so slow in this country to provide school with a data information output in simple terms.

 

Thanks

 

Brett

Base2Base

Liverpool

[Sivadam]

What many have not considered either is the effect of the BSF agreements which forces us into an extortionately expensive Hosted ICT Service for 5 years. Something that I tried to fight at the time. What happened to best value???

Unfortunately, I was a loan voice in the wilderness.

Fortunately, I have now been instrumental in helping our Hosting company in getting SLG fully functional, with the help of the Capita Support Staff!

 

(The contractors moved on-site just after Spring Bank and by September part of the school will be in the temporaray accommodation!)

[GeneralDreedle]

Sivadam, Have you got behaviour events that show parents the teacher's name and lesson details? Because we can't get that to show even though it's recorded in SIMS. So we have 1000+ parents who were used to ePortal for 4 years who are now pretty cross that on our SLG replacement the behaviour events make no sense to them.

 

The other downside of SLG for us has been the need for active directory provisioning which, thanks to the input of our LA (CIA level security) and tardiness of our BSF supplier, and the SIMS insistence on only provisioning those with Parental Responsibility (so long grandma and aunty Flo!) has been a nightmare to administer. ePortal was just a website with a password. Dead easy to run. You could generate reports and mail merge to send out whole year group of users.

[Sivadam]

You are quite correct that Teacher Names and Lesson Details of the Incident do not appear on SLG. I believe that this is by design. If they were available then this school would hide this detail in the same way that we hide Comments, Action etc etc. What is showing on the Conduct Summary is a 'Summary'.

Should you wish extra fields to be added then lodge a CR! And before anybody says that these are not 'listened to' then please consult SupportNet re. the SLG Software Consultation meetings. These usually discuss CRs as part of their normal agenda. Hopefully, I will be attending one of the meetings! I'll even support your CR in advance of this - providing you ask that it is 'optional' i.e. can be hidden!

 

As for your reference to managed services - I share your frustrations. But should you really be giving access to pupil data to 'Auntie Flo? What about the data protection guidelines? Non-Parents who have PR can be provisioned for SLG, as far as I am aware! Anybody without PR should not be given access to pupil data!

 

(PS - the ''availlble available'' that you may see above is NOT was is typed into the post. I have even tried deleting one and there is only one instance of the word 'available' in the actual post! )

Edited June 22, 2011 by Sivadam