Using Backup Exec 2010 to backup more than 1 server

[Guest Podge]

Hi

 

I was wondering if its possible to use Symantec Backup Exec 2010 to backup 3 seperate physical servers, or can you only backup the one? All 3 servers are on the same domain etc, but was just wondering if anyone knows if it can be done, and if so, how?

 

Thanks

 

Podge

[localzuk]

You need an agent license for each machine you're backing up. So, in your case you'd need 3 agent licenses. If you intend to do anything like SQL, you need an SQL agent license too.

 

Your best bet is to speak to a Backup Exec reseller.

[Guest Podge]

Sounds too costly if i have to get a license for each server, and its like getting blood out of a stone just to get the go ahead to buy a network cable. Ill just backup to external HDD as them servers are not that important, and use the BAckup Exec for the main DC and File Server with Exchange.

 

Thanks for your help.

[Disease]

You will need an exchange agent to backup exchange server using backup exec.

[pantscat]

its like getting blood out of a stone just to get the go ahead to buy a network cable.

 

I can sympathise... but backups are a tiny bit more relevant and important to those people with the purse strings, especially if you point out in black and white why you need to backup using "proper" methods and what the impact will be if you don't and it all goes T.U.

[dhicks]

Sounds too costly if i have to get a license for each server

 

As mentioned here:

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/hardware/75035-storage-backup.html#post669059

 

BackupAssist might be just as suitible for your needs and more affordable if you need to backup Exchange and MS SQL Server. For user files, you can always just have a periodic task copy those to a separate server once a day via rsync, robocopy, or just plain copy, and maybe backup from there to removeable media.

[IKWeb]

I can sympathise... but backups are a tiny bit more relevant and important to those people with the purse strings, especially if you point out in black and white why you need to backup using "proper" methods and what the impact will be if you don't and it all goes T.U.

 

I totally agree with Pantscat. I have just finished at contract at a school which had NO backups running at all. Once the SMT found out they purchased a server, and new licences for Backup Exec that day.

 

The school is sbliged, not sure legaily tho to backup all data on the school network, students work, exam work for instance, and not to mention FMS and SIMS (student data) if this was to be lost due to a fire etc, they school would be in deep poo poo.

 

Licences for backup exec, as mentioned by podge are not ovelly expensive, I used a company called Entec who are a UK reseller of Backup Exec.

 

Either way, for the cost of the softwear vs the trouble the school would be in if the data was lost is nothing.

[IanT]

Yeah, you need the agents, im sure there is a license adviser tool when you install BE 2010

[apearson]

I'm pretty sure to back up the 3 servers, you would only need your main licence + 2 agent licences. Also, for SQL backup, if you are able to stop your SQL services before the backup (use the BE pre/post commands option), you do not need to buy the extra SQL agent. I use this successfully to back up our SIMS and FMS databases each night.

[SkreeM1980]

Sounds too costly if i have to get a license for each server, and its like getting blood out of a stone just to get the go ahead to buy a network cable. Ill just backup to external HDD as them servers are not that important, and use the BAckup Exec for the main DC and File Server with Exchange.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

2 remote agent licences should be around £350 they are not expensive until you start adding the Advanced Open File and SQL/Exchange agents. It is much more cost effective to backup multiple servers from 1 than backup each server individually cos you can make a massive saving on the backup hardware. we currently backup 35-40 servers from a single backup exec and it usually works a treat. although the only time a backup isn't running is 10:00 - 17:30 weekdays

 

Skr

[pantscat]

I don't mean to patronise, but.... (here I go anyway!) it's your job to advise the management team what is required and what is best-practice.

You shouldn't really be making a decision (unless your job description specfically says so) as to what is important data and what is not.

 

Remember that it's much easier to point out that this is a requirement and that investment is needed now (preferably in writing!) rather than trying to explain at a later date why you didn't have "proper" backups and you're not able to restore data/services.

 

HDDs in my opinion are not a suitable backup solution. They can be part of one - but I'd always recommend having a longer term archive using proper media that was made for the job (like say... tapes!).

 

I don't mean to patronise in any way shape or form - I just would hate for this to bite you on the bum at a later date.

 

In my experience it's always best to present all your recommendations to management with pros and cons and costings so that they can then turn around and say either "Yes, let's buy it!" or "No, we don't have the dosh and this is not something we want to do. Let's spend the money on some nice plastic bookshelves instead". At least then you've discharged your duties and your conscience will be clear.

[localzuk]

HDDs in my opinion are not a suitable backup solution. They can be part of one - but I'd always recommend having a longer term archive using proper media that was made for the job (like say... tapes!).

 

I would say the opposite now. Tapes are NOT a long term archival solution. They have a limited lifespan, and are more prone to damage than a fixed hard drive system. Remember, all technology breaks down, including tapes and hard drives. At least with a hard drive solution you can keep it going via RAID disk replacements should one fail, or by transferring to a new NAS if the old becomes unreliable. If a tape stops working, that's it. You've lost the data on that tape.

 

We are using an entirely disk based backup system here, and it beats the tape based solution we had previously in every way - ease of restores, longevity of the medium, price, speed, etc...

[pantscat]

@localzuk - Maybe I need to re-assess my stance on this one then!

 

Just out of interest - what do you do for off-site backups?

[localzuk]

@localzuk - Maybe I need to re-assess my stance on this one then!

 

Just out of interest - what do you do for off-site backups?

 

We have multiple buildings on our site, so we have our backup server in a different building to the main network cabinet. The chance of us losing both buildings is tiny.

[pantscat]

Ah - that makes quite a difference to strategy I think having multiple buildings.

[localzuk]

Ah - that makes quite a difference to strategy I think having multiple buildings.

 

Indeed it does. But then, every organisation needs to look at what provides the best solution to them individually. For example, you could use a load of external hard drives, and do a drive swap with another local school.

[pantscat]

This is very true... or a VPN based site mirror for DR. (Maybe a bit pricey...) :-)

[36Degrees]

Also, make sure that the version of Backup Exec didn't come with the device itself as a QuickStart edition. If that was the case then you can't add agents to backup other remote servers, you need to purchase a licence for the full version first. This will obviously add costs but you can at least then ensure that you get the latest versions of everything.

[Guest Podge]

Thanks for all the input people, info taken on board. I tell the management what happens if somethings not done right and they just let it go over their heads, i put things in place and then get told i cant do it. Highlight of my career so far here. I keep a record of what i tell them now, so if something did happen, i can just turn round and say wel i informed you on such and such a date that this might happen and you shrugged it off.

 

I guess i can just keep trying.

 

Thanks for the input though!

[SkreeM1980]

We are using an entirely disk based backup system here, and it beats the tape based solution we had previously in every way - ease of restores, longevity of the medium, price, speed, etc...

 

Disk based backup is fantastic for all the reasons you mention, but it falls down on the ability to take the backup offsite, and the ability to store it in a fireproof state. Unless you are using expensive SSD's transporting hard disks doesn't make for a relliable solution due to the moving parts.

 

Disk to Disk to Tape is the way I want to go, disk backup and restore is fast, but storage of a Grandfather/Father/Son system for archival and retrieval involves many many disks and tape becomes much more cost effective.

 

The chance of us losing both buildings is tiny.

Yes but what if... aircraft crash? Arson attack on school ... both buildings? How far apart are your buildings? I've got a 2nd server room across site (2.5km away) thats probably ok ... but you can never be sure ... I'm sure there where many companies in buncefield saying .. 100m is far enough away.

 

Just to note, i've used offsite internet backup before and i'm not a big fan, ok for the odd file etc, but a full server restore over internet bandwidth is not a pleasant thought!

 

Skr

[36Degrees]

One stick to beat them with is exams. I was told by our Exams Officer some years ago that exam boards won't accept computer failure as an excuse for not submitting work.

 

Do you have a Languages department? Where do they store the files form their oral recordings? What happens when the exam board says the files on CD are corrupted and Languages have accidentally deleted that file?

 

The same goes for PE, Drama, Music, etc. so if you trust them speak to your Exams Officer or do a bit of research on the websites of the main exam boards.

[localzuk]

Disk based backup is fantastic for all the reasons you mention, but it falls down on the ability to take the backup offsite, and the ability to store it in a fireproof state. Unless you are using expensive SSD's transporting hard disks doesn't make for a relliable solution due to the moving parts.

 

Fireproof safes are 100% useless. No fire brigade will allow you into a site until it is declared safe. Most fireproof safes have a time of, what, 30 minutes? An hour? Most fires burn for longer than that in my experience. Especially in a building filled with flammable materials like a school. Your safe contents will be a pool of goo by the time you get to it.

 

Disk to Disk to Tape is the way I want to go, disk backup and restore is fast, but storage of a Grandfather/Father/Son system for archival and retrieval involves many many disks and tape becomes much more cost effective.

 

Have you see the price of hard disks now? We're getting a new NAS for backups, with 8 x 2TB business quality SATA hard disks, total price, including the NAS? £1700. 3 year warranty on the lot. Tapes, when you consider you should be replacing them yearly according to best practice guidelines, come in more expensive than that even!

 

Yes but what if... aircraft crash? Arson attack on school ... both buildings? How far apart are your buildings? I've got a 2nd server room across site (2.5km away) thats probably ok ... but you can never be sure ... I'm sure there where many companies in buncefield saying .. 100m is far enough away.

 

Its a price vs probability exercise. Probability of a plane crash? Miniscule. Chance of something taking out both buildings? Slightly higher than that but still tiny. There is no way of preparing for everything. What if the nearby nuclear power station goes into meltdown? Will we be busy grabbing backups? I doubt it! If we were running a country, then no, the system I'm using wouldn't be good enough. I'd expect backups across multiple redundant links with data-centers spread across the country.

 

Just to note, i've used offsite internet backup before and i'm not a big fan, ok for the odd file etc, but a full server restore over internet bandwidth is not a pleasant thought!

 

Agreed. Backing up hundreds of gigabytes of data over a net connection sounds like a bad idea to me.

[SkreeM1980]

Fireproof safes are 100% useless. No fire brigade will allow you into a site until it is declared safe. Most fireproof safes have a time of, what, 30 minutes? An hour? Most fires burn for longer than that in my experience. Especially in a building filled with flammable materials like a school. Your safe contents will be a pool of goo by the time you get to it.

 

Fireproof safes in the server room are 100% useless, fireproof safes carefully placed with seperation from the server room and not on the 3rd floor can be useful. Ours are minimum 8hrs burn time and are strategically placed near the perminter of buildings. We have one in the next building and then one on the other side of site, 2.5km is not wholly offsite backup but it is 'acceptable' at the moment.

 

Have you see the price of hard disks now? We're getting a new NAS for backups, with 8 x 2TB business quality SATA hard disks, total price, including the NAS? £1700. 3 year warranty on the lot. Tapes, when you consider you should be replacing them yearly according to best practice guidelines, come in more expensive than that even!

 

Yes, have you seen the price of tape? Our system uses 163 tapes for a full yearly rotation at the moment, total capacity of 65Tb uncompressed. Cost for full set of tapes is under 3k if i was to replace all each year. I wouldn't replace tapes only used once a year (quarterly, annual) each year, and would only replace monthly tapes every 2 years. Weekly tapes, every year definately. You find me a NAS that can do 65Tb for that cost?

 

Disk to Disk to Tape - Yeah brilliant, Need about 8-10 Tb and can backup daily and go to tape once a week, reduce costs on tape and make life easier for restores. But with the tape rotation if i want to recover say a database from before the end of the last financial year I can.

 

Its a price vs probability exercise. Probability of a plane crash? Miniscule. Chance of something taking out both buildings? Slightly higher than that but still tiny. [/Quote]

 

Totally agree, but what is the cost of the impact on operations if it happens? Our Offsite backup is still onsite. It still concerns me that if the disaster happened that the students could go and complete study elsewhere, however they would want their exam results and coursework etc to save having to repeat. With a school this is more essential as the education is compulsory so alternative arrangements for teaching would have to be found, and the students/examboards/etc would still want the data.

 

Skr

[hasat1]

good post and interesting

[localzuk]

Fireproof safes in the server room are 100% useless, fireproof safes carefully placed with seperation from the server room and not on the 3rd floor can be useful. Ours are minimum 8hrs burn time and are strategically placed near the perminter of buildings. We have one in the next building and then one on the other side of site, 2.5km is not wholly offsite backup but it is 'acceptable' at the moment.

 

Where on Earth did you get an 8 Hour data safe from?? We've been completely unable to find one, even having talked with local security firms to try and locate a data safe. Longest time we found was 120 minutes. Not to mention, one that could hold all of your 163 tapes would also need to be very large - and a 120 minute data safe that size comes in at about £2500 or so.

 

Where did you get it and how much did it cost? Also, how did you have it delivered?

 

Totally agree, but what is the cost of the impact on operations if it happens? Our Offsite backup is still onsite. It still concerns me that if the disaster happened that the students could go and complete study elsewhere, however they would want their exam results and coursework etc to save having to repeat. With a school this is more essential as the education is compulsory so alternative arrangements for teaching would have to be found, and the students/examboards/etc would still want the data.

 

If something happened in this area which had all of our buildings destroyed, or happened in your area which did the same (2.5km away!), then the last thing on anyone's minds would be the data at their school/college.

 

You obviously draw your line higher than I do in the probability vs price exercise. That's fine, I just haven't read anything that would make me want to change our backup processes. Nor would our Bursar, who specifically asked us to stop using tapes due to the manual labour requirements, and therefore the possibility that things *won't* get backed up when someone forgets, or is off sick etc...

Edited May 13, 2011 by localzuk