SimpleSi Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 BBC News - School curriculum 'slimmed down' OK, don't bother your head with any of that creative ICT Stuff you saw at BETT - its time to get our coats - last one out switch the lights off Si
Diello Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 To be honest I don't think discrete ICT is that greater loss. They need some structured study in Year 7 to ensure their base ICT knowledge is good enough, then most of the use of ICT is covered cross-curricular. Most Unis and employers seem to agree that ICT as a curriculum subject isn't much use - how to write a report in Word and create a PowerPoint are better taught when there is a real application in another subject, instead of fictitious scenarios created in ICT. Either the ICT curriculum needs a total rewrite to actually be relevant, or it's valuable teaching time that can be reclaimed. I doesn't affect IT pros in schools - most of our time is spent with other departments than ICT Teaching, and the creative resources we see at BETT are rarely for discrete ICT use. 1
Rydra Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Discreet IT NEEDS to be taught, and from an early age if current trends are anything to go by. When you have 1 hour to teach your students your subject, you really don't need to be teaching them the fundamentals of how to operate devices; You wouldn't expect a Yr 11 GCSE student to be learning how to use excel for the first time in their maths lesson, you'd get nothing done. They need to be taught the basics, in a structured manner from an early age (read primary), teaching about ways to operate and intelligent thinking on use of formating, fonts, layout and formula's. They then use the skills in their other subjects, building on them each year. You don't expect someone to rebuild a car engine before you've taught them not to put the round peg in the square hole! 2
jumpinjamez Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Gove is taking us back to the 50`s , can they not see in that technology companies are making money and we need to educate our students with the skills to compete in this market. I admit current ICT cources that teach Word ,excel etc are outdated now so lets revamp it with new media skills. This government also did not want to give games makers in this country tax breaks like other entertainment industries even though its the fastest growing and shows no sign of stopping with kinect being the upgrade of choice for all those dustys wii`s out there. i have a feeling this government just dont "get computers". I wonder if we tell Gove we will give every pupil a RM slate 100 he would say yes thinking its one of these http://www.objectlessons.org/upload//images/A04010_m.jpg 1
mthomas08 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 In all honesty, I only took basic IT back in school. I never chose it as an option, I did Technology/Woodworking, now look at me, Network Manager of a school. Biggest problem is at that age we never really know what we want to do when we grow up, we can't really get away with fireman, spaceman and action hero no more. And looking back there is so much time I wasted in Art and technology and even food tech because I never really learnt anything. In fact the skills I learn in the last 10 years of being an adult I learnt from people in my life or by my self and not in school. Personally as for ICT, keep it because the world is getting more and more tech savvy and it would be silly to remove it. Although I will admit there are certain things our year 10's and 11's are learning in their "options" that I dont really think any of them will need.
Rydra Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Gove is taking us back to the 50`s , can they not see in that technology companies are making money and we need to educate our students with the skills to compete in this market. I admit current ICT cources that teach Word ,excel etc are outdated now so lets revamp it with new media skills. This government also did not want to give games makers in this country tax breaks like other entertainment industries even though its the fastest growing and shows no sign of stopping with kinect being the upgrade of choice for all those dustys wii`s out there. i have a feeling this government just dont "get computers". I wonder if we tell Gove we will give every pupil a RM slate 100 he would say yes thinking its one of these http://www.objectlessons.org/upload//images/A04010_m.jpg Put an RM logo on it and rubberise the outside, and you'd have something higher tech than any RM system. But they'd still cost £500 each with a £50/year support cost. 3
AyatollahPies Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Gove is taking us back to the 50`s , can they not see in that technology companies are making money and we need to educate our students with the skills to compete in this market. I admit current ICT cources that teach Word ,excel etc are outdated now so lets revamp it with new media skills. This government also did not want to give games makers in this country tax breaks like other entertainment industries even though its the fastest growing and shows no sign of stopping with kinect being the upgrade of choice for all those dustys wii`s out there. i have a feeling this government just dont "get computers". I wonder if we tell Gove we will give every pupil a RM slate 100 he would say yes thinking its one of these http://www.objectlessons.org/upload//images/A04010_m.jpg By the look of that slate, they might actually get to learn the important things like the 3 'Rs', rather than being able to watch the latest Justin Bebwhatshisname video.
Rydra Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 In all honesty, I only took basic IT back in school. I never chose it as an option, I did Technology/Woodworking, now look at me, Network Manager of a school. Biggest problem is at that age we never really know what we want to do when we grow up, we can't really get away with fireman, spaceman and action hero no more. And looking back there is so much time I wasted in Art and technology and even food tech because I never really learnt anything. In fact the skills I learn in the last 10 years of being an adult I learnt from people in my life or by my self and not in school. Personally as for ICT, keep it because the world is getting more and more tech savvy and it would be silly to remove it. Although I will admit there are certain things our year 10's and 11's are learning in their "options" that I dont really think any of them will need. 10 years ago, ICT was a young subject, and the people who taught it had either not had the time to get acquanted with 'modern' computers, or were dinosaurs who used to read ticker-tape. ICT principles, though the tech has improved, hasn't CHANGED a lot in 10 years, and as such the teachers we have now had 10 years of relative stability to learn how to use the stuff themselves. I never took any IT subject at school out of choice; I learnt more on my own than I ever would have from the incompetent idiots who were teaching it then, and i proved it repeatedly by running rings round them in terms of (lack of) network security, completing their work in a fraction of the time alloted, and the main reason, proving that at the age of 14 and no previous IT experience I understood more about the basic operation of a computer than they did. Had I been given current IT teaching back then, I would probably have gone onto a masters or PHD in computing, and be a VERY different person.
teejay Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 This review is looking at the core subjects which are required for all schools to teach to a set curriculum. Yes they are cutting down on the prescribed core subjects, but this will give schools the flexibility and freedom to teach what they want, rather than what the latest education minister deems appropriate. I think in quite a few schools ICT will become a bigger and broader subject rather than being limited to the current national curriculum.
MK-2 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Put an RM logo on it and rubberise the outside, and you'd have something higher tech than any RM system. But they'd still cost £500 each with a £50/year support cost. Reminds me of the present I got a guy I worked with who left here last year.... http://i53.tinypic.com/2zdwsv8.jpg 1
NikChillin Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 we teach computing, programming etc, the ICT is taught in the other subects where it can be a tool to work with.
Sirbendy Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Discreet IT NEEDS to be taught, and from an early age if current trends are anything to go by. When you have 1 hour to teach your students your subject, you really don't need to be teaching them the fundamentals of how to operate devices; You wouldn't expect a Yr 11 GCSE student to be learning how to use excel for the first time in their maths lesson, you'd get nothing done. They need to be taught the basics, in a structured manner from an early age (read primary), teaching about ways to operate and intelligent thinking on use of formating, fonts, layout and formula's. They then use the skills in their other subjects, building on them each year. You don't expect someone to rebuild a car engine before you've taught them not to put the round peg in the square hole! Never been to Kwik fit then? 1
Sirbendy Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Someone bought daughter a chinese knockoff of the old "pen stylus" magnadoodle...rather like etch-a-sketch but pen equipped. Missus had a load of her web mates round, I pulled it out and said "hey, look at my Ipad!"..they weren't overly amused. Heh.
elsiegee40 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 This whole curriculum review by the government is plain daft. They have already stated that they want all schools to become Academies... Academies have freedom from the National Curriculum. Why bother messing with the National Curriculum?
tech_guy Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Did you hear that some of the cheaper tablets in the states have a bit of a problem. They come shipped with adult content - a porn bundle. A few people on xmas day weren't happy when their kids opened them and discovered the little extras.
MK-2 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Did you hear that some of the cheaper tablets in the states have a bit of a problem. They come shipped with adult content - a porn bundle. A few people on xmas day weren't happy when their kids opened them and discovered the little extras. which ones?????????????????????? you know, purely so i dont buy the wrong ones.....just being cautious.............
somabc Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 10 years ago, ICT was a young subject 10 years ago? So 2001? I think ICT was hardly young then? There has been Computing since the 1950's and in Schools since the 1970's/80's? I can certainly remember computing lessons in the 1980's and 1990's!
mthomas08 Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 Think its meant that 10 years ago IT was geeky shall we say, now MSN is used by all youngsters, they have Bebo, Facebook and nearly every house hold has PC+Internet Even parents and people that dont have a clue with IT are getting laptops and PCs. Yet 10 years ago it was only us in the IT business or actually "needed" it not just for play or to join the world, online shopping has gone through the roof, ebay. I can go on
somabc Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Think its meant that 10 years ago IT was geeky shall we say, now MSN is used by all youngsters, they have Bebo, Facebook and nearly every house hold has PC+Internet Even parents and people that dont have a clue with IT are getting laptops and PCs. Yet 10 years ago it was only us in the IT business or actually "needed" it not just for play or to join the world, online shopping has gone through the roof, ebay. I can go on Again I'd argue PC / Internet use was widespread 10 years ago, I'm sure it was longer than that when I had Tesco first deliver groceries over the internet. Millions of people used the internet and PC's before the millennium. Amazon, Ebay, BBC News, Google, Napster, the 'Dot Com' Boom all happened before 2000. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/int0301.pdf Edited January 20, 2011 by somabc
jdoyle Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 10 years ago? So 2001? I think ICT was hardly young then? There has been Computing since the 1950's and in Schools since the 1970's/80's? I can certainly remember computing lessons in the 1980's and 1990's! when I was a lad blah blah blah.... Left Wootton Bassett school in 1979 without seeing or knowing what a computer was. First intro to IT was 1981(?) at Swindon College, 2 SuperBrains running CPM off 8inch floppy discs and a beastie in a room with teletypes and paper tape. Can't believe how successive govts keep messing about with education with no real results. Can see GCSE forlock tugging on the agenda shortly; all us lower order plebs need to know our places don't yer know..
alan-d Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) This whole curriculum review by the government is plain daft. They have already stated that they want all schools to become Academies... Academies have freedom from the National Curriculum. Why bother messing with the National Curriculum? Because the people whose job it is to play with the National Curriculum have suddenly realised that if all schools become academies then they will be out of a job, so they are making themselves infalible by saying that the National Curriculum needs fixing. It's a bit like one of us taking a win 95 machine apart for something to do because the new win 7 machines don't need mainenance (OK bad example but you get the gist ) Edited January 20, 2011 by alan-d
36Degrees Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 The other issue is which teacher is actually taking that lesson shoud ICT be cross-curricular. Several here don't have the ICT skills themselves so expecting them to teach others is a huge case of "the blind leading the blind" and even those that are reasonably literate would still class as "the partially sighted leading the blind". Also, teachers in other faculties use ICT as tools to teach their subject, how many of them would be prepared to teach pupils the ICT skills first or at the same time?
GrumbleDook Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 This is where the skills v knowledge argument starts again. With a little bit of support between departments, teachers who do not have the required skills in particular areas can still help other subjects make the most of things. A geography field trip in yr7 collects information about a variety of things ... not just limited to geography. They might collect information about the grounds they are in (ie the history of the estate, the previous usage as farmland, etc), the wildlife in the area (the types and quantities of insects and birds) and so on. They get back to school and the ICT Department use the trip to help generate a flyer, dealing with DTP, which can they be followed through by Art. Science then use the data about animals to look at migration, habitats, the food chain, etc. In year 8 Maths can take the same data to work through probability, mean/median/mode, as well as taking any use of graphs by Geography and perfecting it ... which then feeds into a unit by science ... and so on. With a bit of planning you can stretch information and hone skills. This can happen very simply in many schools and most primary schools are rather good at this. It is quite embarrassing that I can go into lots of primary schools and talk about this vertical learning of knowledge and skills ... and they get it. I speak to secondary schools and the departments are in silos and don't talk to one another. How many secondary schools have sat down and looked at what primary schools teach? How many have a decent programme of work to get skills and knowledge up to speed (not just in ICT but in other subjects too)? As IT Managers, NMs, Techies in secondary schools I would expect you to ask your feeder schools what software they use and what for, so that you can help departments prepare for when the new kids into year 7. You might be surprised about what some of them learn ... and it is not taught by ICT specialists either.
jdoyle Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 How many secondary schools have sat down and looked at what primary schools teach? How many have a decent programme of work to get skills and knowledge up to speed (not just in ICT but in other subjects too)? As IT Managers, NMs, Techies in secondary schools I would expect you to ask your feeder schools what software they use and what for, so that you can help departments prepare for when the new kids into year 7. You might be surprised about what some of them learn ... and it is not taught by ICT specialists either. Happy to say we're on the ball here. Lots of contact with our feeders by teachers (ICT, Maths, DT, Science, PE, English, , MFL, Gifted&Talented etc) and our tech team do the hardware/software installs at the primary schools. Lots of transition support starting in year 5. Did a couple of years as a parent governor at a primary and was impressed at how well organised they were (schemes of work, lesson plans etc). Less impressed by what I see from many secondary teachers. 1
tech_guy Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 which ones?????????????????????? you know, purely so i dont buy the wrong ones.....just being cautious............. Just do a Google search for 'android tablet from colby came preloaded with' and you'll find the story. It was a Kyros Tablet.
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