2 DHCP Scopes One Network 2 Schools

[nuttygeek]

Hello,

I have a Problem In that we have 2 school on one physical network, although we currently run seperate domains. The other school runs all of there clients on DHCP and we run all of ours on static ip so not a problem. The issue is we now want to setup RIS for server 2003 and need a DHCP scope. So yeh we setup one and it runs but the problem is there computers pickup are addresses and are computers get some of theres. The other issue is we want very soon in the future to setup a WINS database between the 2 schools. We have seperate Ip ranges but on the same network and how can we get our computers to get our addresses and theres to get theres.

NB:

- Cannot Physically seperate networks as both sides need other sides network infastructure to get to there computers.

- Would a Router somewhere in the network solve the problem and how?

- How is a dumb computer that want to be built from RIS going to know which Ip range it wants?

 

Please Help

Feel free to email me on [email protected] with anything no matter how small an idea.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Nuttygeek

[ConTheITGuy]

Not entirely sure I get you, but would 2 VLANs help? Splitting the network in 2 while keeping the same switches?

 

Andy.

[Ric_]

I don't understand how you have 2 schools and one physical network - could you explain this further?

 

If the schools are geographically separate with a single link between, a router would do the trick otherwise you would need 2 VLANs on your switches (separating out which ports belong to which network).

[GrumbleDook]

One the second DHCP scope (the one for the site with static addresses) use reservations via MAC addresses. This will get rid of the problem of the first scope giving the wrong addresses to the machines on the other site, but still allowing you the benefits of DHCP.

 

I would recommend you use reservations on both sites. It can make life so much easier.

[ConTheITGuy]

But if a machine from the site the site with the static addresses contacted the 'other' server - it wouldn't know about the reservations would it? ...or something...

 

Seriously tho - I'm with Ric - would love to know more about the setup you have going on there!

 

Andy.

[StewartKnight]

I must admin I struggled to form a coherent sentence from the question, but I suspect that what you want is some way for both networks to talk to each other. If this is the case, what I've done in the past is, get a box with two NICS, one on each IP range. Don't add to a domain, just have a workgroup, and set up a trust.

 

Other wise, could you clarity you question, as we all seem to have different interpretations!!!

[nuttygeek]

Ok,

Firstly for the suggestions so far they will all be looked into i do like the Mac address idea, cheers to everyone though.

 

You want more ok, it a boys school and girls school next door physically to each other with a joint 6th form and we have joined the 2 schools fibre together in a link in the joint music block ( a number of subject use the same facilities for both schools) this link was put in because the headteacher will never allow one school to control the entire ICT infastructure, so we are going to put in WINS instead which will get around that problem and give freedom to the students to log on anywhere. We can disconnect where its joined because we would lose are music and dt machines and they would lose there 6th form machines. They are 2 seperate networks joined at the fibre.

 

With the problem of the reservation contacting the other server could we not tell that server if it gets that type of request to redirect it to our server? ( i dont know never done this before)

 

In short:

-Same physical site and joined fibre overall one network with 2 system running on it

-2 domains to be joined by WINS ( no an issue at present)

-Has anyone used RIS?

-Willing to try anything

 

Check out the picture that might help but is likely to confuse, also i failed art at school but then we never had computers in art like they do nowerdays.

 

Thats all for now folks!

Nuttygeek

[Ric_]

What's the WINS for?

 

Why not have 2 domains with a trust? You could then use one IP range and log onto either network from any machine. This would also mean that there is more flexibility as to what each machine can be used for.

 

VLANs would do the trick for you (essentially giving you two physical networks without changing the infrastructure - assuming that you have layer 3 switches).

 

BTW - Like the pic!

[mac_shinobi]

If you have one vlan wouldnt that block the other network and hence be a seperate network anyway ? Or does it require the 2 vlans ? If so why ?

[nuttygeek]

Ok ric cheers for the help will look into that, to everyone im still open to suggestions.

 

Nuttygeek

[mac_shinobi]

LMFAO @ your signature nuttygeek :

 

"Teachers have more degrees than a Thermometer, but still can't plug in a USB mouse."

[SpuffMonkey]

Not entirely sure I get you, but would 2 VLANs help? Splitting the network in 2 while keeping the same switches?

 

Andy.

 

Yeah - I'd agree with that - its roughly what we have (assuming your switches are up to the task)

[Ric_]

With the VLAN option, you could also assign some ports to be in both VLANs if you need to share certain servers, etc. across the 2 networks.

 

If you do go for the VLANs, I hope your switches have well designed management interfaces cos it could take you a LONG time.

[GrumbleDook]

If you are worried about machines picking up an IP Address from the wrong server then go for reservations on both scopes.

 

That way it will only ever get the correct IP Address.

 

Client 1 ask for address ... asks server 2 ... it says "go away .. I don't like you" ... it asks if there are any other machines to give it an address ... server 1 says "helloooooo nurse!" and then everyone is happy.

 

A chunk of work to set the schopes up with the reservations ... and the VLANs would work just as well.

[mac_shinobi]

and then the nurse computer says " down boy !! " lol

[MkII]

I'm with Ric - 2 domains available to all users. Building the PC's you add them to the desired domain. If you had no trusts between the domains wouldn't that mean machines in one wouldn't be able to log into the other - Or is it just that users wouldn't be able to see the other domain when logged in?

 

A DHCP scheme where the entire range, split into 2, is locked down to reservations sounds good too.

 

All you have to worry about is kids from either side swapping/guessing passwords. Maybe a case for mandatory blue and pink wallpapers!

[tarquel]

Glad I'm getting my first managed switch tomorrow (or monday) - HP ProCurve 2626

 

Start of a managed network [i hope]

 

 

Looking forward to vlan's too [might solve my proxy prob mark ]

 

Nath

[nuttygeek]

terquel the 2626 is a great piece of kit we have it 'I LOVE IT' infact we have a nice collection of hp procurve kit now, including a POE switch is such great kit you will spend hours looking into it beauty. when we got ours i sorted all the cabling just to show of are hp kit see below

[tarquel]

hehe it came this afternoon, along with the lovely looking proliant HP ProLiant ML150 G2 and the rather large [too large for my stupid small wall-mounted cabinet Grrrrr] APC Smart-UPS 1500VA [wayyyyy too deep lol]

 

And a few other things too.

 

Never got to play or fit the switch tho - mores the pity

 

I've had to put the APC on the worksurface [an elaborate term for such a crap area to put servers on lol] and ....wait for it.... put the new server on top of it lol

 

Seems happy enough - i just have no space to put it anywhere else - the rails may allow me to fit the APC in the cab but i doubt it lol

 

ahem....

 

/rant

 

Regards

N.

[E1uSiV3]

hehe it came this afternoon, along with the lovely looking proliant HP ProLiant ML150 G2 and the rather large [too large for my stupid small wall-mounted cabinet Grrrrr] APC Smart-UPS 1500VA [wayyyyy too deep lol]

 

I've had to put the APC on the worksurface [an elaborate term for such a crap area to put servers on lol] and ....wait for it.... put the new server on top of it lol

 

Seems happy enough - i just have no space to put it anywhere else - the rails may allow me to fit the APC in the cab but i doubt it lol

 

Ive got a pair of these beasts, and yeah, they threatened to rip both my cabs off the walls so i put em on a table and mounted a shelf bout 10" above it to hold monitors with the boxes underneath, will run a dual Xeon Poweredge 2600 for an hour tho with monitor which is impressive

 

Anyway, back on to the question...

 

Just to repeat everyone else but help clarify:

 

You have 2 options, Route the traffic or VLAN it.

 

To route the traffic, you would require either a dedicated hardware router (duh!) or a box with 2 NICs and routing capabilities set up. (Im sure Geoff can advise on a good nix based linux app to do this)

 

If you want to use VLANs, you will required some form of managed switch.

 

IMO, i would look at the VLAN route as it is a lot more expandable and tweakable than a dedicated router solution.

 

Put site 1 comps and site 1 dhcp server in vlan 1

Put site 2 comps and site 2 dhcp server in vlan 2

put any resources you require on both subnets (such as internet gateway or shared resource servers) in to vlan 1 and 2

[ConTheITGuy]

Tarquel: I have mine set up the exact same!! APC 1500 on the bottom, server sat on top! Then switch, then KVM, then a fibre patch panel! I really need a decent cab! (The desk they're sat on is quite shiny and new tho!)

 

 

Andy.

[Ric_]

@andy: Check out the APC Netshelter racks - competivively priced and the best quality rack I've ever seen (it even has huge wheels to get it into place).

 

You can see a pic of mine in its temporary location at http://rmcharlton.blogspot.com

[tarquel]

@andy:

 

lol Who's will overheat first? So long as theres space around the edges then we should be ok.

 

The cab is too small lol

 

My KVM is only a cheap one - belkin 4-way one - just the job though wish I'd got a bigger one now.

 

 

Wow! thats nice ric - how much was it tho? [not that it wud fit in my room lol]

 

Nath

[Ric_]

@tarquel: The cab is only about £500 (including side panels and you get a load of nus and bolts chucked int). It even has plastic punch-outs so that you don't damage your cables on bare metal edges.

[tarquel]

once they revamp the part of the school my server room is in, it'll be up there on my essentials list

 

N.