And the cuts just keep on coming !!

[aerospacemango]

Those bonuses are taxed at 51% if over £150,000, so the bigger the better I say ;-)

 

 

These bonuses should be taxed at 65%+

 

Why should these people get HUGE bonuses, after nearly driving our country to the brink of bankruptcy? The toxic loan fiasco was driven by the major banks....some of which are STILL heavily in debt to the nation, for saving them, and yet at the first sign of profit, instead of paying us back, they whack out huge bonuses to their gamblers.

 

The bonuses, let's not forget, are on top of a six, and sometimes seven, figure salary. More gravy for the elitist express!

[beeswax]

No offence taken ;-) Can't open that link, it's blocked, but in answer:

Why do they salt the money away offshore? Apart from being greedy it's because the tax rate is too high here. If it was lower, then it wouldn't be worth offshoring and we would get the tax revenue from it. If you don't approve of what a certain company does, don't use their products/services, it's supposed to be a free market after all ;-)

 

Corporation tax rates in the UK are still relatively low compared to other EU member states as a whole.

 

One of the companies in question is Vodaphone, and is estimated to owe £6billions (that's not a spelling mistake) in tax, a figure that HMRC doesn't dispute.

It's fine you saying don't buy their products, but they can't put themselves above the law, or for that matter, the ordinary tax-paying member of the public who generally pay their taxes.

[teejay]

These bonuses should be taxed at 65%+

 

Why should these people get HUGE bonuses, after nearly driving our country to the brink of bankruptcy? The toxic loan fiasco was driven by the major banks....some of which are STILL heavily in debt to the nation, for saving them, and yet at the first sign of profit, instead of paying us back, they whack out huge bonuses to their gamblers.

 

The bonuses, let's not forget, are on top of a six, and sometimes seven, figure salary. More gravy for the elitist express!

 

Well, add VAT onto the purchases they make and you're over your 65%.

But I do agree, the situation we are in with the banks is deplorable. Personally I think they should've all been allowed to go to bankrupt. Yes it would've caused a lot of disruption, but we would never again have banks acting so stupidly.

[localzuk]

Corporation tax rates in the UK are still relatively low compared to other EU member states as a whole.

 

One of the companies in question is Vodaphone, and is estimated to owe £6billions (that's not a spelling mistake) in tax, a figure that HMRC doesn't dispute.

It's fine you saying don't buy their products, but they can't put themselves above the law, or for that matter, the ordinary tax-paying member of the public who generally pay their taxes.

 

The corporation tax issue is an odd one. Look at Japan - they have a massively high corporation tax, yet some of the world's largest companies are based and thrive there.

[maniac]

This is very true....but people should still have a CHOICE over whether they go to Uni....

 

You do, you just have to get a loan to cover the costs. No one's managed to put forwards a good arguement for why people shouldn't pay if they want to go on to higher education. In theory if you goto university your employment opportunities should be better, your earnings potential should greater and thus your ablity to repay a loan should be higher. I think the question is why should tax payers continue to pay for the university system, why shouldn't the people directly benefitting from it pay for it?

[localzuk]

You do, you just have to get a loan to cover the costs. No one's managed to put forwards a good arguement for why people shouldn't pay if they want to go on to higher education. In theory if you goto university your employment opportunities should be better, your earnings potential should greater and thus your ablity to repay a loan should be higher. I think the question is why should tax payers continue to pay for the university system, why shouldn't the people directly benefitting from it pay for it?

 

As I said earlier, the rest of society is also benefiting too.

[Guest Guest]

You do, you just have to get a loan to cover the costs. No one's managed to put forwards a good arguement for why people shouldn't pay if they want to go on to higher education. In theory if you goto university your employment opportunities should be better, your earnings potential should greater and thus your ablity to repay a loan should be higher. I think the question is why should tax payers continue to pay for the university system, why shouldn't the people directly benefitting from it pay for it?

 

Exactly. The problem is the devaluing of degrees. If everyone has one then they mean nothing > if they mean nothing then you wont be payed a good wage > if you are not payed a good wage then fees of £9k are alot of money > as £9k is alot of money is it worth the risk of going to uni? > but if its a loan which doesnt get payed back and the bill will be picked up by the govt. and ultimately the people then does it matter?... and so on.

 

The chain needs to be broken. I'm unsure if putting the price up is the right way, maybe it is, I dont know, but something had to be done.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Guest

[Guest Guest]

As I said earlier, the rest of society is also benefiting too.

 

Why? If everyone has a degree in pointless subjects which means that even jobs with wages under the loan repayment threshold require one, how will burdining the country with yet more debt help society?

 

I know what you are getting at but you seem to be assuming everyone/most people do worthwhile subjects which ultimately benifit the economy but sadly this is getting further and further from the truth.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Guest

[maniac]

As I said earlier, the rest of society is also benefiting too.

 

But are we really benefitting when you consider academic organisations seem willing to hand out degrees for being able to fart in tune these days? The very best students will still go no matter what, because they will excel and benefit society and themselves anyway. What it will do is put off Kevin Smith who was going to study a degree in Social media studies, then come out of university and go and work in B&Q as a manager - lets be honest you don't really need a degree to do that, so is there any benefit to socety for him going in the first place? I can cite counteless real world examples of this having seen the outcome of many many friends going through university. I'd say only 1 in about 4 of my friends who went to uni are actually working in a job where they needed their degree to get it, the rest are doing pretty normal jobs which you would be able to get anyway, so how has society benefitted from those 75% of people attending university at our expense? (These are guesstimated figures based on the people I know by the way, but it would be a very interesting statistic if it existed in the real world, how many people currently employed actually needed their degree to get to where they are? I bet it's a lot lower than people think)

 

"Why did you goto uni kevin?"

"Ah well it seemed the right thing to do, and it was easier than getting a job at the time!" (that's a real answer from someone by the way, but I changed the name)

Edited November 26, 2010 by maniac

[Gatt]

What I dont understand is, how can Scotland etc not have fees at all?

Not sure, same with the free NHS Prescriptions..

(for the Scots only, of course!)

I aint got a problem with that

[teejay]

Corporation tax rates in the UK are still relatively low compared to other EU member states as a whole.

 

One of the companies in question is Vodaphone, and is estimated to owe £6billions (that's not a spelling mistake) in tax, a figure that HMRC doesn't dispute.

It's fine you saying don't buy their products, but they can't put themselves above the law, or for that matter, the ordinary tax-paying member of the public who generally pay their taxes.

 

But that figure is dwarfed by the total tax evasion of sole traders and small businesses....

[localzuk]

I have at no point said that I agree with some of the nonsense degrees that exist now - they should be scrapped asap.

 

The point remains, a highly educated population is a more valuable one, economically. High Tech industry requires skills and knowledge that can only come from degree level education, and that is the area of real growth in the future. Look at the USA - Google is one of the world's most successful companies, filled with graduates, worth a fortune, bringing in a massive amount of tax revenue for the country etc... If they didn't have the graduates, they wouldn't be successful.

[Hightower]

degrees for being able to fart in tune these days

 

really?! which uni? 1st class degree here I come baby, yeah!

[Hightower]

I have at no point said that I agree with some of the nonsense degrees that exist now - they should be scrapped asap.

 

The point remains, a highly educated population is a more valuable one, economically. High Tech industry requires skills and knowledge that can only come from degree level education, and that is the area of real growth in the future. Look at the USA - Google is one of the world's most successful companies, filled with graduates, worth a fortune, bringing in a massive amount of tax revenue for the country etc... If they didn't have the graduates, they wouldn't be successful.

 

But your only argument is that education comes from universities. I learnt how to do my job, on the job, and I class my work as skilled. I'm sure a lot of the population of EduGeek came from similar backgrounds too.

 

To be educated doesn't mean you need a bit of paper and loads of debt. To be educated means that you can carry out the tasks required in a competent manner.

[localzuk]

But your only argument is that education comes from universities. I learnt how to do my job, on the job, and I class my work as skilled. I'm sure a lot of the population of EduGeek came from similar backgrounds too.

 

To be educated doesn't mean you need a bit of paper and loads of debt. To be educated means that you can carry out the tasks required in a competent manner.

 

Except that we don't work in high-tech industry. We aren't setting up facebookesque websites, or google-sized websites with billions in profit. Or producing the next generation CPUs used in game consoles etc... No, we work in skilled work in a limited fashion.

 

Skilled labour jobs aren't the same as professional or 'high tech' jobs, where academic achievement is important. Engineering, science, maths etc...

 

Why do we always buy all our trains from Japan, Italy, France etc...? Because our own train building industry became stagnant using old technologies and 'on the job' training. Why are all our car companies now gone? Because our 'on the job trained staff' preferred striking to working, and produced an industry that required back scratching to get into rather than actual knowledge and ability.

[Guest Guest]

High Tech industry requires skills and knowledge that can only come from degree level education, and that is the area of real growth in the future. Look at the USA - Google is one of the world's most successful companies.

 

Why do you NEED to go to uni to work in a high tech industry? You've named one company so I'll name one person; Bill Gates. He dropped out of uni yet I wouldn't say he was unsuccessful.

 

 

Not everyone is upto wokring for high tech industries so why does everyone need to go to uni? Surerly if someone is good enough to work for a high tech industry they will be happy to pay £9k as they will be earning £100k+ each and every year for the rest of their lives.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Guest

[Hightower]

Except that we don't work in high-tech industry. We aren't setting up facebookesque websites, or google-sized websites with billions in profit. Or producing the next generation CPUs used in game consoles etc... No, we work in skilled work in a limited fashion.

 

Skilled labour jobs aren't the same as professional or 'high tech' jobs, where academic achievement is important. Engineering, science, maths etc...

 

Why do we always buy all our trains from Japan, Italy, France etc...? Because our own train building industry became stagnant using old technologies and 'on the job' training. Why are all our car companies now gone? Because our 'on the job trained staff' preferred striking to working, and produced an industry that required back scratching to get into rather than actual knowledge and ability.

 

Okay, okay. You're a man who likes facts, figures, and stats and the like. That has shown over the years. See if you can find me the percentages of grads who end up in 'high-tech' work - the kind of work that really NEEDS a degree. I reckon it'll be way less than 20%.

[somabc]

Why do you NEED to go to uni to work in a high tech industry? You've named one company so I'll name one person; Bill Gates. He dropped out of uni yet I wouldn't say he was unsuccessful.

 

Not everyone's Bill Gates!

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Bill_Gates_mugshot.png

[localzuk]

Why do you NEED to go to uni to work in a high tech industry? You've named one company so I'll name one person; Bill Gates. He dropped out of uni yet I wouldn't say he was unsuccessful.

 

He also had millions of dollars in his bank account from the start... Very different to normal people.

 

Okay, okay. You're a man who likes facts, figures, and stats and the like. That has shown over the years. See if you can find me the percentages of grads who end up in 'high-tech' work - the kind of work that really NEEDS a degree. I reckon it'll be way less than 20%.

 

Which is why you get rid of the crap degrees, and focus your education system on creating the industry that the UK wants and needs. Finding a figure of past entry into high-tech won't be much use, but instead working to increase the number of people doing it is the point here.

[beeswax]

But that figure is dwarfed by the total tax evasion of sole traders and small businesses....

 

Can you provide the stats for that, please?

[beeswax]

The problem is the current set of policies are favouring business and not the people. For example, the article someone posted earlier to the Guardian. (fine, it is probably biased but the points stand). Allowing the banking industry to dole out massive bonuses, after they created much of this mess in the first place, is just wrong.

here's on from the BBC then...BBC - Peston's Picks: Why the Treasury won't illuminate 2010 bank pay

[teejay]

Which is why you get rid of the crap degrees, and focus your education system on creating the industry that the UK wants and needs. Finding a figure of past entry into high-tech won't be much use, but instead working to increase the number of people doing it is the point here.

 

The problem then is that the majority of people going to University at present would not be capable of doing anything other than the crap degrees, so rather than having 50% of students going onto University are you advocating that we go back to around the top 20% going to University like it used to be?

[maniac]

Which is why you get rid of the crap degrees, and focus your education system on creating the industry that the UK wants and needs. Finding a figure of past entry into high-tech won't be much use, but instead working to increase the number of people doing it is the point here.

 

Yes that I agree with, get rid of the rubbish then you wouldn't need to change the funding because there wouldn't be so many people willing to goto university in the first place, and then a degree would start to take back on some of it's status that is used to hold many years ago, the letters after the name would actually mean something again!

 

Go back to the 'red brick universities' and the 'traditional courses' as my grandfather would call them. He had a point, he was very strongly spoken at the time I was considering going that (in his opinion) if I was going to goto university I should study a 'proper' degree course at a 'proper' university, and if I didn't do that then there was little point in me going. I didn't fancy any of the traditional courses, I did consider a computer networking degree for a while (much to his disappointment) but eventually decided to just make a go of it and get a job and if that didn't work out I could always go to university in a few years time.

 

Although I didn't goto university in the end, I'm not doing so badly now and I certainly don't think I'd being doing any better if I had gone, as evidenced by one friend who went and did almost exactly the same course as I was going to, and now does the same job as me. Of course he ended up about £11,000 in debt as a result and is still paying it back 8 years later. In a way that made my grandfather correct, there was little point in me going to university unless I had gone and done what he considered a 'proper' degree, as I've worked my self to the same position as the computer networking degree would have most likely got me by now anyway.

[teejay]

Can you provide the stats for that, please?

Black economy leaves £42bn hole in Britain's tax accounts - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

The vast majority of this is from individuals, sole traders and sme's. You also have on top of this the 'cash' economy which isn't accounted for in this. How many of you do a bit of computer support work on the side and get paid in cash or goods, do you declare this as income?

[aerospacemango]

Black economy leaves £42bn hole in Britain's tax accounts - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

The vast majority of this is from individuals, sole traders and sme's. You also have on top of this the 'cash' economy which isn't accounted for in this. How many of you do a bit of computer support work on the side and get paid in cash or goods, do you declare this as income?

 

I rather think that you haven't READ the article properly, and just found it to copy the link............

 

 

An estimated £15.2bn in VAT receipts was not collected by tax officials last year – equivalent to one-sixth of the money that should have been due, and a sharp increase on £11.7bn the year before. The finding chimes with a recent study which concluded that the "informal economy" represented about 14 per cent of Britain's gross domestic product.

 

But the figure could also reflect the increasing rate of business failures during the recession. Many companies pay their VAT receipts up to 18 months in arrears, by which time they may have gone bust. The country missed out on a further £14.5bn in receipts from income tax, national insurance and capital gains tax, with about 7 per cent of direct taxes unpaid.

 

The biggest proportion (£5.8bn) was accounted for by individuals under-declaring on their tax self-assessment forms. "Ghost" workers who fail to disclose any of their income dodged £1.3bn in tax, while those not owning up to second jobs evaded £1.8bn. Companies underpaid £6.9bn in corporation tax, almost half of which was put down to deliberate avoidance by large firms.

 

Some startling "FACTS" in there, I think!