Virtual Plan Advice

[pritchardavid]

Hi there guys

 

Can you look at the plan I made, see what you think

 

Don't really know about the last few on the list, seems overkill to have its own virtual server

 

Just to add, has I didnt say this in the document, all host servers have 2x intel quad processors (can't remember what speed)

 

Maybe in the future we use one of the server hosts for the admin network? (configure it with a vlan)

 

Thanks

[bio]

Reading it quickly some things cam through my mind :

 

* Why need w2k8 r2 datacentre or enterprise ?

* I would split the FMSO roles between the 2 DC's (possible due to both DC are GC)

* VM14 is not needed.. you add DHCP roles to both DC's

* 1 VM for exchange2010 ? i dunno how many users you have but this seems a little to less

* VM15 & VM 16 are not needed you can add those roles to both DC's as well

* i would recommend an 3rd DC that is running on a physical server

 

regards

bio..

[pritchardavid]

Reading it quickly some things cam through my mind :

 

* Why need w2k8 r2 datacentre or enterprise ?

 

regards

bio..

 

Because If you have standard, you have to buy a standard licence for each VM (not the host)

 

Enterprise allows for 8 vms you only pay for how many processors you got on the hosts (unless you buy more licences, to be able to use more vms), so only 10 licences needed for us, will be more expensive but will allows for more headroom in the future.

 

Datacentre is licenced the same way has enterprise but allows for unlimited vm (doubt we will go for this one unless it not much more the enterprise)

 

Reading it quickly some things cam through my mind :

 

* I would split the FMSO roles between the 2 DC's (possible due to both DC are GC)

 

regards

bio..

 

Not a bad idea there

 

Reading it quickly some things cam through my mind :

 

* VM14 is not needed.. you add DHCP roles to both DC's

 

regards

bio..

 

How can you have two DHCPs? Through you can only have one per a doamin?

 

 

Reading it quickly some things cam through my mind :

 

* 1 VM for exchange2010 ? i dunno how many users you have but this seems a little to less

 

 

regards

bio..

 

Well at the momment we only have one server for the exchange, so im assuming it will be ok still, or do you think to have two? Maybe one for students, and one for staff, or just a backup?

 

Reading it quickly some things cam through my mind :

 

* VM15 & VM 16 are not needed you can add those roles to both DC's as well

 

regards

bio..

 

Ok thats a good idea

 

Reading it quickly some things cam through my mind :

 

* i would recommend an 3rd DC that is running on a physical server

 

regards

bio..

 

Why would you recommend doing that? I through dcs were fine all virtual? I was thinking of having the hosts not on the domain, has the dcs would all be virtual, which mean they start up after the host, so there wouldn't be any problems

[plexer]

How can you have two DHCPs? Through you can only have one per a doamin?

 

You can split the scope between the 2 servers so that they don't issue overlapping addresses.

 

Ben

[bodminman]

I too would recommend still having a 'Physical DC' alongside the virtual infrastructure and that is what I have.

 

You can never be too sure!!!

[bio]

Regarding the standard or enterprise\datacentre license... I was thinking the VMware way. But i see you are going for hyperV

Most consultants will say to have at least one DC that is not part of your virtual infratructure. If the virtual infrastructure collapses you still have a DC with an AD database up & running. It will speed up the recovery progress

For exchange 2010 : ms recommends at least 12 GB ram if you combine a server with roles like CAS, HT,mailbox. If possible i would place 2 of them. Lets say with 8 GB mem. If troubles arrise you'll have 50% of your exchange environment still running

 

regards

bio..

Edited September 28, 2010 by bio

[pritchardavid]

Ok sorry for me being dumb here but how does the failover feature work?

 

Is it just when a server goes down it move the vms over to a another server?

If that is true does it do that when you restart a host server too?

 

So if a vm image goes down, it case of manually fixing it like a normally on a normal server?

 

 

Well it does seem we have spare ram going, so we could do two exchanges

 

I would say one for students and one for staff.

[bio]

Ok sorry for me being dumb here but how does the failover feature work?

 

Is it just when a server goes down it move the vms over to a another server?

If that is true does it do that when you restart a host server too?

 

So if a vm image goes down, it case of manually fixing it like a normally on a normal server?

 

 

Well it does seem we have spare ram going, so we could do two exchanges

 

I would say one for students and one for staff.

 

Well if you run vmware it will failover fine if one hosts goes down. (or if a VM thats is fault tolerance enabled goes down)I dunno if hyperV also does this.

Regarding the exchange : if one vm goes down you still have 1 VM with some mailboxes up and running. You won't lose your entire exchange 2010 organization if the only one VM goes down. I would create 2 exchange databases per exchange server. 1 DB for staff and 1 DB for students...

 

bio...

[detjo]

Definitely agree with a physical DC - as the 'PDC' with DHCP. Yu'll be glad yu did. A lot less hassle in the long run

[pritchardavid]

Ok will try to soft out where to place a physical dc, don't know where tbh. Don't really want to put it on a vm host, want them use to be a host only.

 

Agreed about dns on both dcs has well has using 2 dhcp on both two with splitting the scope, and splitting the CMOS roles on them two.

 

 

 

Ok have I got this right?

 

A failover is where one vm host goes down?

All the vms transfer to other vm hosts? (shared SAN)

How about if you was to restart a vm host, would the same way happen?

 

If this is the case, is it worth splitting some of the sites on the website.? Ie I could move the vle to it's own VM

 

Gonna put in a share pint vm too, have can get that ŵorking and that will replace word press has our school website, even I have just got word press point there are a lot of limits, chaining things ain't easy, got to work with php coding in the theme files, which I don't know how to do

[pritchardavid]

ok updated the plan document

 

tell me what you think, still working on it

[pritchardavid]

ok updated again - how would I setup exchange to failover to the second exchange server if the first one went down?

 

Or should I just setup each server like this?

 

MAIL01 - Student Database

MAIL02 - Staff Database

 

I like the idea about the physical server, but at the moment I can not see a server we can use for it, I dont want to use a VM host server

 

Cant use the old server 3, has this is not x64, so no good for 2008R2

[ianh64]

Can I just pick up on the Enterprise/DataCentre licensing.

 

I am currently in the process of splitting a couple of our virtual servers up and short term, will probably require a couple of extra server licenses. Long term, may also need an extra one. Looking at prices, a standard license is about £50, enterprise about £160 and data-centre a few £ more. So basically, data-centre and enterprise = 3 standard licenses but allow multiple virtual servers under the license agreement. We are going to end up with one server host running 3 virtual servers, so the maths with enterprise and data-centre are beginning to stack up.

 

I just want to confirm a few things...

 

Because If you have standard, you have to buy a standard licence for each VM (not the host)

Are you saying that with a host running 3 VM's that I only need 3 standard licenses total and not a fourth to cover the host itself?

 

If I go enterprise or data-centre, is it one license per physical machine or is it per processor licensing?

 

If I go enterprise or data-centre, can I retro apply this to my existing host and move its license off for later reuse? Don't think I need any of the enterprise or data centre features other than just the license, but if the server could be upgraded easily, then it may be worth considering.

 

If I remember correctly, all versions of Server were included on the media installation disc?

 

If I go enterprise or data-centre, do I then have to buy other versions of software or can I stick with standard versions like SQL, TMG and Exchange (SQL and TMG licensed on per processor model)?

 

Thanks

 

Ian

[pritchardavid]

We have been quoted £70 on microsoft schools agreement for each lience for the data centre. Yes it is per a processor licence.

 

Yes if you have standard you need one for the hyperv host and one for each virtual server that you use.

 

Data centre will allow you to use has many virtual servers has you want on the server. Enterprise I believe was only 8.

 

Yes all versions of the server is included on the install disc.

 

 

Yes you can you any version of SQL etc. The licening is only for the servers, doesnt matter about anything else

 

 

Cant see why you couldn't move you current licening to other servers

Edited October 6, 2010 by pritchardavid

[jtotheb]

Are you saying that with a host running 3 VM's that I only need 3 standard licenses total and not a fourth to cover the host itself?

 

Couldn't you run the host on Hyper-V Server 2008 R2? There's no licence cost to potentially worry about then.

[ianh64]

Couldn't you run the host on Hyper-V Server 2008 R2? There's no licence cost to potentially worry about then.

I don't think that Hyper-V server helps as far as licensing is concerned. From my research over the last day, it does not offer anything over and above what Server Standard offers - that is even with Windows Server 2008R2 Standard, you get 1+1 licenses (1 physical+1 virtual). One for the virtual environment and another license for the physical server solely for the single role of hosting virtual machines. From my understanding, if the physical server does more than support Hyper-V (as ours does), then it will need a license in its own right.

 

Enterprise gets 1+4 (1 physical + 4 virtual) licenses per server, Data Centre is unlimited but per processor. With Enterprise, one of the virtual licenses could be allocated to the physical processor to allow that to run other server roles, so Enterprise in this scenario would cover physical full server + 3 VM's.

 

So for us, moving to 3 virtual servers plus a physical server hosting low demand roles, then Enterprise licensing seems to be the most economical way of doing this as we can redeploy our existing Standard server license in the future. Thanks to p-dave for highlighting this option to me.

 

http://download.microsoft.com/download/F/C/A/FCAB58A9-CCAD-4E0A-A673-88A5EE74E2CC/Windows_Server_2008_Virtual_Tech-VL_Brief-Jan_09.docx

 

Question. Not being at the machine right now, how easy is it to physically redeploy/reactivate the new license key to our physical server so that our server gets all the same volume license key? Our standard server key is different as it was supplied from a different supplier. Can I literally just change the product key and reactivate without rebooting?

 

Another question. How difficult would it be to upgrade our physical standard server installation to enterprise? IIRC this will allow more than 4 processors to be deployed to the virtual machines.

Edited October 7, 2010 by ianh64
Went with Enterprise option

[Psymon]

The Hyper-V licensing works as follows (Went virtual in the summer)

 

Enterprise License = Host + 4 VM's - licensed per physical server, irregardless of CPU count (i believe you can also purchase 2 x Enterprise licenses and run 1 host with 8 VM's and license in this manner 3 License = 1 Host 12 VM etc...)

Datacentre Licenses = Host + Unlimited VM's - Licensed per CPU Socket and tends to be more cost effective.

 

Some observations regarding the plans -

Personally i would not bother seperating WSUS and WDS, seeing as you are sharing CPU / Network bandwidth etc... Put them both on the same server.

You MUST HAVE the PDC outside of the virtual enviroment, if the Hyper-V hosts (which are Windows based, domain joined servers dont forget) cannot see the PDC they will not launch the VM's

Your DC servers may as well perform the DNS role - and DHCP to be fair (use AD Integration to save managing multiple servers / replication issues)

 

Remember to leave breathing space on the servers, we have 3 x 8 core 2.66Ghz /w 36Gb RAM each - we have made sure ALL of the Hyper-V machines have 30-40% RAM unused, in the case that a Hyper-V host falls over, the VM's can move to the other 2 servers. If you have no RAM spare on the others, they will refuse to fire up.

 

We currently have 3 servers with 24 VM's running no issues. Hosting DC's, DNS, DHCP, IIS, Remote Desktop Services, Exchange and SQL (+ other stuff )

 

Hope the info helps.

Simon

Edited October 7, 2010 by Psymon