Insomnia

[dwhyte85]

Since the death of my Mum, to whom I was very close I am experiencing insomnia pretty bad.

 

I have had Zopiclone for 2 weeks; these literally had no affect on me (apparently being built like a grizzly bear doesn’t help). I am now on Tamezepam and these keep me asleep, but I am maybe sleeping 4-5 hours on a good night, but they improve my mood alot.

 

I have tried exercise (45-50 mins cardio at the gym), no caffeine, warm milk & honey, reading a book but nothing is working! I am running on near empty, my body aches constantly because of it.

 

My general attitude has changed, I am pretty bitter, totally becoming an IRL troll/ogre and want confrontation and socially reclusive, I can bearly hold a conversation.

 

Doctors keep saying it’s down to the death, I imagine it plays a big part but it’s getting no better. As a lot of you work in IT I’d guess a portion suffer from the above, I don’t attribute it all to the death (I wasn’t great before). My goals are two-fold, able to sleep & able to socially interact without wanting to tear somebody a new bottom hole – doctors are shrugging it off because of the death and I’m worried it’s more than that. Counselling has been tried and failed; does anybody have a good method of talking to Doctors without being made to feel like you’re not believed or so they take me seriously?

[SYNACK]

From my experience a lot of it depends on the doctor in question and moving around till you can find one that you can work with, this has been the best solution for me. The other thing that I would look into is requesting a referal to a specialist in the area of concern. That way you are far more likely to get someone who actually knows what they are doing and is more likely to be able to help rather than downplay things they don't have the skills to deal with.

[RabbieBurns]

Any news on the Dubai thing?

 

If not are you in the position to be able to go away for a while somewhere.. Just somewhere completely different away from everything.. A week to Spain on the beach, or a cottage by a loch in Scotland, or such? A day by the beach with the sea air and swimming, or a walk through the hills, is always tiring, and the change will take your mind off whatever it is (even if its subconscious and you don't realise) thats keeping you awake..

[maestromasada]

The practice of Tai Chi really helped me to overcame this dark scenarios, it is difficult to keep the will up and one had to close the eyes and try to go through, that's life after all, isn't it?

[mb2k01]

It doesn't sound to me like your Doctor is being particularly helpful. Is there another doctor who you can get a second opinon from - perhaps look to make an appointment on a day you know your Doc isn't working if you don't want to outright as for a second opinion?

 

Do you suffer with any other related symptoms like headaches, dizziness, restless leg syndrome?

Did Zopiclone have absolutely no effect? What doesage / strength were you on?

[dwhyte85]

Dubai isn't happening for a few reasons, none of which in my control, the company lost the contract I'd have been looking after and they're now cutting staff... I had to swallow my pride and go un-resign, that was probably the most difficult thing I've done for a long while - but the sleep has been an issue for along time, not because of this - thankfully the school were pretty good about it.

 

Zopiclone 7.5mg daily, I went for 15mg but it made me feel literally drunk (was so fed up with no sleep so self prescribed a double up, not recommended)... and more awake than I was before I took it. I get leg jerks when I do sleep, they wake me up but nothing any worse as a symptom... I just can't stop thinking, it isn't necessarily bad things I think about either. I get 30mg Tamazepam but it's supposed to be addictive, it doesn't make me sleepy it just stops be getting woken up so easy. For example, I had 4 1/2 hours last night undisturbed but that was my lot!

 

My Docs surgery is a problem, I see a different Doc each time I go... I've never had the same Doc twice, that is the same with the other Doctors surgery in Windsor, I have tried walking, gym, fishing... I have tried to mentally knacker myself out too with puzzles, games and wake myself up further.

 

I haven't been away from here just yet but money has been an issue as has the funeral and bits, to be honest i am over the death - i just want to sleep now.

Edited August 29, 2010 by dwhyte85

[teejay]

Get all this down in writing, including details of what you're tried etc and what you expect them to do and why you are unhappy. Make an appointment to see a doctor again, but make sure you ask to see a practise partner as you are unhappy with how you are being treated and take your notes with you and show them to the doctor and explain your misgivings.

If you don't get a proper response from that, contact your Primary Care Trust for the region and they will have a complaints procedure to go through.

[localzuk]

Dubai isn't happening for a few reasons, none of which in my control, the company lost the contract I'd have been looking after and they're now cutting staff... I had to swallow my pride and go un-resign, that was probably the most difficult thing I've done for a long while - but the sleep has been an issue for along time, not because of this - thankfully the school were pretty good about it.

 

Zopiclone 7.5mg daily, I went for 15mg but it made me feel literally drunk (was so fed up with no sleep so self prescribed a double up, not recommended)... and more awake than I was before I took it. I get leg jerks when I do sleep, they wake me up but nothing any worse as a symptom... I just can't stop thinking, it isn't necessarily bad things I think about either. I get 30mg Tamazepam but it's supposed to be addictive, it doesn't make me sleepy it just stops be getting woken up so easy. For example, I had 4 1/2 hours last night undisturbed but that was my lot!

 

My Docs surgery is a problem, I see a different Doc each time I go... I've never had the same Doc twice, that is the same with the other Doctors surgery in Windsor, I have tried walking, gym, fishing... I have tried to mentally knacker myself out too with puzzles, games and wake myself up further.

 

I haven't been away from here just yet but money has been an issue as has the funeral and bits, to be honest i am over the death - i just want to sleep now.

 

Sounds to me like you have a huge amount going on in your life causing massive amounts of stress! I've been there and suffered from that. The only thing that helped me was speaking to a therapist. Working through the issues and coming to peace with each of them. Pills did diddley squat.

 

Have you thought about speaking to a therapist?

[mb2k01]

Yeah, Zopiclone makes you feel that way generally. I took it for a while and recall the feeling of spinning / laughter before eventually falling to sleep. I'm fairly sure I was on either 25 or 30mg. How long did you stick with it? It took me a week or two to get my head around the odd feeling, but length of sleep built up and normalized after that. Once you get to that stage you can look to decrease dosage if you're happy to.

 

Another alternative to discuss with the doctor may be Nortriptyline. It is prescribed for a multitude of reasons, but its links with insomnia, depression and anxiety might work well for you. It's very mild but quite effective.

[dwhyte85]

Sounds to me like you have a huge amount going on in your life causing massive amounts of stress! I've been there and suffered from that. The only thing that helped me was speaking to a therapist. Working through the issues and coming to peace with each of them. Pills did diddley squat.

 

Have you thought about speaking to a therapist?

 

I've spoke to our own schools medical care/OTs, MacMillan throughout & Cruse... the other option is going back to the hospital, literally 20 yards from where she died for support and I don't really fancy that too much!

 

 

Yeah, Zopiclone makes you feel that way generally. I took it for a while and recall the feeling of spinning / laughter before eventually falling to sleep. I'm fairly sure I was on either 25 or 30mg. How long did you stick with it? It took me a week or two to get my head around the odd feeling, but length of sleep built up and normalized after that. Once you get to that stage you can look to decrease dosage if you're happy to.

 

2 Weeks and they took me off, they said it isn't a long term solution for me... so they put me on the 'stronger' stuff.

 

 

The PCT do bugger all, I know this from when I fought for my Mums Lapatinib... they just aren't interested, protocol & funding is all I heard for months

[witch]

Sorry but you are NOT 'over the death'. It takes at least 5 years to come to terms with the death of a loved one and so please don't think that you should be fine by now. It sounds to me as if you are SEVERELY depressed - you show all the symptoms.

You need to ask to be referred to a psychiatrist or psychologist to get it sorted out. I do understand the doctor issue but I am horrified that they think that prescribing sleeping pills is the answer. Try and see the best of the doctors and sit there until they agree to refer you on - take someone with you for support if possible.

The more you worry about sleep, the less it will come. I have a problem sleeping and mostly I try to ignore it and get up and do something useful. This does seem to help. A relaxing hobby like Tai Chi or Yoga or even meditation could help.

Just talking about things will help too - we are always here

 

* Bossman recommended me a book - 'Stop thinking, Start living' by Richard Carlson and it really helped get me out of the 'hamster on a wheel' type thought processes

Edited August 29, 2010 by witch

[mb2k01]

@Witch - As much as I respect what I think you are trying to get accross in the above message, I'm not too sure the bluntness on referals will help. I also completely disagree with the line about pills.

I don't pretend to know anything about your background, and apologise in advance if this is something that you have been through personally and found to work for you - but everyone else is different and what works for one does not always work for another.

If someone is suffering with depression, anxiety, sleeplessness or any other separate issues, they need to find suitable ways to cure each one. In cases where there are multiple issues pills will often form part of the overall solution.

 

I hope I explained the above well enough to let you know I'm not having a go at you. I just know that someone imparting horror at prescription pills and advising consultation with psychologist/iatrist would have probably knocked me back down (and I have been there in a very similar situation), and possibly may with the OP.

[localzuk]

I have to agree with Witch here - the problem sounds remarkably like depression to me - I've been surrounded by people who suffer with it all my life, and the symptoms jump out at me.

 

The answer is a mix of medication and therapy, not just more sleeping pills or similar.

 

To the op, have you thought about trying to get a referral to a different hospital?

[mb2k01]

*Edit/addition to my previous message:*

@witch I should really have added that I'm not at all disputing the depression suspicion by the way - I am in complete agreement!

Everything I have written above actually releates to the treament/resolution of both depression and insomnia, including the reference of having been there myself.

[dwhyte85]

Thanks for your replies.

 

I was told my depression was not because of chemical imbalance, it's because of the death. Yea, fair enough when I mean over the death - I mean I can get to work, the outburts are stopping, get a bit tearful but I can get on with life. Before I was totally ballsed, couldn't even go to the shops.

 

The counselling I've had hasn't worked, CRUSE is ongoing, MacMillan is finished and school OT/counselling is always there. Bringing it back is getting me back off track, that upsets me a bit because I feel like i'm getting on OK until these sessions.

 

The social aspect is bad, I could lose my rag pretty quick and this is what the Doc said was depression, but totally normal.

 

I know pills arent an answer, i just want to sleep though - over the weekend where I can't get a doctor and with a bank holiday i feel alone because i just cant sleep! Everything else aside, I would love to sleep until my problems are resolved.

 

I can fully understand what you're saying witch, localzuk but I need something to sort me in the moment, until it's all out and resolved.

 

thanks for the responses, this has been better than several medical forums and nhs direct...

[witch]

@Witch - As much as I respect what I think you are trying to get across in the above message, I'm not too sure the bluntness on referals will help. I also completely disagree with the line about pills.

If someone is suffering with depression, anxiety, sleeplessness or any other separate issues, they need to find suitable ways to cure each one. In cases where there are multiple issues pills will often form part of the overall solution.

.

I didnt actually say that I felt that pills did not form PART of the answer, what I said was that I wasn't happy about the fact that the OP had been prescribed SLEEPING pills without looking at anything else such as depression or counselling. As localzuk says, the answer is possibly a mixture of medication and counselling. Trying to sort out each symptom individually is not really a very logical way to go about things as one symptom is affected by another and so until the whole is sorted, it is likely that any part solution will not work very well.

As for the depression not being caused by a chemical imbalance, that is a very odd thing to say -depressioin can be caused by lots of things - I doubt the Chilean miners are suffering from a chemical imbalance but they have been sent anti-depressants to help them cope. My mother has been prescribed mild antidepressants to help her since my dad died, and it has lifted her mood enough to stop her being angry all the time, and it has quieted her mind enough to help her sleep.

I do see that you need to sleep, but as you say, sleeping pills are not working, so I was trying to suggest other things. mb2kO1, I dont see why suggesting a psychatrist would 'knock someone back down', unless you feel that these professionals are only there to help those with mental illnesses etc, which is not at all the case. They are 'head doctors' in the same way that a hospital doctor is a 'body doctor' and they can help you get yourself straight and back to some semblance of normality after a very traumatic experience.

They are far better qualified than any counsellor to explain to you what is going on in your head and help you to sort it out.

I'm sorry that I seem to have upset you, mb2k01, but TBF the OP doesnt seem to be worried about my phraseology, which is a relief.

Yes, I have been there too

[mb2k01]

Hi Witch,

No, you hadn't upset me in the slightest.

My point was that blunt statements like those made in your first post can often have an opposite effect than the one intended on a person who is in the the situation the OP is (and by the sound of it we have both been in). As you say, the OP doesn't seem concerned so all is well and hopefully we have both helped in our own ways. Further discussion/explanation would detract from the purpose of the thread, and "TBF" probably be pointless, so i'll keep it at that.

 

Sorry for veering off the main topic OP.

[dwhyte85]

I didnt actually say that I felt that pills did not form PART of the answer, what I said was that I wasn't happy about the fact that the OP had been prescribed SLEEPING pills without looking at anything else such as depression or counselling. As localzuk says, the answer is possibly a mixture of medication and counselling. Trying to sort out each symptom individually is not really a very logical way to go about things as one symptom is affected by another and so until the whole is sorted, it is likely that any part solution will not work very well.

As for the depression not being caused by a chemical imbalance, that is a very odd thing to say -depressioin can be caused by lots of things - I doubt the Chilean miners are suffering from a chemical imbalance but they have been sent anti-depressants to help them cope. My mother has been prescribed mild antidepressants to help her since my dad died, and it has lifted her mood enough to stop her being angry all the time, and it has quieted her mind enough to help her sleep.

I do see that you need to sleep, but as you say, sleeping pills are not working, so I was trying to suggest other things. mb2kO1, I dont see why suggesting a psychatrist would 'knock someone back down', unless you feel that these professionals are only there to help those with mental illnesses etc, which is not at all the case. They are 'head doctors' in the same way that a hospital doctor is a 'body doctor' and they can help you get yourself straight and back to some semblance of normality after a very traumatic experience.

They are far better qualified than any counsellor to explain to you what is going on in your head and help you to sort it out.

I'm sorry that I seem to have upset you, mb2k01, but TBF the OP doesnt seem to be worried about my phraseology, which is a relief.

Yes, I have been there too

 

The problem I have is with getting the same Doctor twice to say if I am better or worse, they are really hessitant to offer anti-depressants to me, they keep saying with time. I can give a long sob story explaining why I'm worse than someone else with all the chemo treatments and the last few weeks of life but Doctors seem to just appease me by agreeing.

 

Counselling really has been no help, I can't describe how much I dislike it because I just feel like it's this vicious circle, I go round and back to the start where I end up as angry as I did 2 days after the death. If I get on with my life things start calming... but I just can't sleep, socially I'm not good but at least I'm not as angry.

 

Your post was pretty harsh Witch but if you've faced death you're going to have a very valid opinion and I just read it as passion, I can see what you're getting at but the less I sleep the worse I am mentally because I'm tired and even more angry/irritable! Trying to find the good in things is difficult, I think I find it very difficult as I have 0 faith, 100% athiest and feel like alot of the options to calm myself down are mumbo jumbo, Tai Chi for instance. I doubt it is mumbo jumbo but I just hope that a single pill will make things easier, both in sleeping & getting on with it.

 

I will ask for a referral, I definitely can't go to the same hospital where she died, the ward is next to the cancer treatment ward and right now, that is too much! Over this weekend it's especially difficult with no access to Doctors, NHS direct say go to a&e... as if that's an actual option, people who actually are an accident or an emergency should go - not a non sleeper who is grumpy.

[witch]

Don't see how my post was harsh except towards the doctors who are NOT helping you in your pain, sorrow and anguish.

I feel for you but if I have said the wrong thing, I am sorry. I am the sort of person who cannot bear to see someone suffer as you are doing without offering some sort of action plan.

As I said, sleeping pills may well form part of the solution, but until someone who is qualified in these matters of the brain has really looked at you, I cannot see how you are going to get a coherent, helpful solution.

I hope you get a referral to a different hospital:when my dad died, I had to go to the same hospital for some investigations and I asked to be referred to another one - they were happy to do so. It is supposed to be your choice now anyway - when referring you your doc should give you a list of hospitals and consultants you can go to.

[dwhyte85]

I didn't expect my Mum to die so soon, I didn't formulate any plans. Everyday I do what I can, having known both my local surgeries they're going to shrug me off. I can ask for a second opinion from another GP at the local practice but... other than getting a referral I'm wasting my time. My problem is the less I sleep, the less capable of doing normal day to day things. I need to bring in a salary, I need to do the shopping, pay the bills and clean the house... I need to sleep to do this effectively, I don't believe it will fix me as such but at least until a referral happens (bear in mind it can take a good month or two for a referral...) I can half function.

 

I will be blunt, our Doctors surgeries are crud, our hospital is in the bottom 20 in the country and they're happier to prescribe than take the time to fix. I am trying to get Bupa care as my partner works at Bupa I get some discount but I haven't yet done this, I'm guessing this is my best option to be seen properly.

 

It's very frustrating when I have to leave work (they know my issues), come back to work and explain nothing is being done... it's like they don't want to take accountability of me or ownership of my case, unless I have some kind of breakdown or get ill I don't see what my local surgeries will do or A&E for that matter!

 

Your post is harsh in the sense that you have your own opinion for what should be done, you've obviously gone through this - at that time did you have a finite plan? If you did, fair play - you are better organised than me or have a far better support network.

[witch]

No, I didnt, and dont have a finite plan then, or now, but I could see that I was in no fit state to try and sort out my issues by myself. I did have a lot of support, but then I also had edugeek which was very helpful (see previous post re recommendation by Bossman)

As I said, you should be able to choose a hospital quite a way away from your home: Choosing your hospital FAQs — Choose and Book

 

Another concerned edugeek member kindly pmd me with this link which could be very useful:

http://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/bereavement.html

 

Hope this helps

[teejay]

Bupa are brilliant, if that is an option for you, take it.

They will see you without a health plan, it's just a case of paying for the treatment as you go.

I used them about 3 years ago for urgent treatment when the NHS put me on an 'urgent' waiting list which was 6-12 months, which the consultant told me it was very 50/50 is I would survive that long. Phoned Bupa, was told to get over straight away and they started treatment that afternoon.