SIMS?

[creese]

I'd agree that SIMS is a complex and powerful beast that you can't learn by reading 1 or 2 online training manuals 5 mins before an interview. But I think in terms of the OP the advice that has been given is pretty spot on. QUOTE]

 

I think it is quotes like this "In all honesty though, it's an incredibly simple system. I'd be very surprised if anybody with an IT background couldn't work their way around it within a day and be completely competent within a week," that we are talking about.

 

If there is someone out there who can be 'completely competent' in a week, from scratch................ do you want a job? You could easily get £35,000.

[vikpaw]

Precisely what I plan to do. I figure that they'll see how much I've picked up in 2 years, and realise that SIMS should not be such a big step....At least I hope not!!

 

We have given practical as well as written test. Installing on a workstation. Checking why SIMS will not login. This is for a support/helpdesk role, finding out if someone can work logically through a problem.

 

I think you should mention any MIS systems /DB that you have worked with in previous work, especially in education. If none, the educational jobs would have had some kind of method be it word documents for reports or access, spreadsheets etc but you can explain what you did. If you can show the potential employer your skill in working with any kind of system and the users of that system then it's a good sign.

 

As creese said, displaying an ability to learn and be able to problem is key.

 

SIMS is constantly changing and new things get added all the time, so an ability to learn to adapt, and also to train others in new skills is vital. Just to say you know this about SIMS would go down well with a future employer. As it's probably not a key part of your role, understanding of server environments and SQL would be strong points anyway.

 

Then just hope that the competition haven't heard of SIMS either, you never know, they may come in bragging they've been playing it for years

 

good luck.

[Sivadam]

I think it is quotes like this "In all honesty though, it's an incredibly simple system. I'd be very surprised if anybody with an IT background couldn't work their way around it within a day and be completely competent within a week," that we are talking about.

 

 

Agreed. One only has to look at the Technical Forum on SupportNet to see the lack of understanding by some users! And that is just referring to the Technical side - a mere drop in the ocean of SIMS Understanding!

Edited July 13, 2010 by Sivadam

[creese]

Imagine a situation where you have someone on the phone, almost in tears, they have OFSTED tomorrow and they need a new machine installed and up and churning out reports, like now!!!! No infrastructure and you have to do it over a slow VNC connection....... then design the reports for her/him. Then declarte you only read the manual a couple of days before you were given the job.

[tmcd35]

Imagine a situation where you have someone on the phone, almost in tears, they have OFSTED tomorrow and they need a new machine installed and up and churning out reports, like now!!!! No infrastructure and you have to do it over a slow VNC connection....... then design the reports for her/him. Then declarte you only read the manual a couple of days before you were given the job.

 

Stepping over what that says about a teacher who probably knew for more than a day that OFSTED are coming... Is the NM the right person to be designing reports? We've been discussing this alot here since we are just starting the move over to SIMS from a lesser MIS. I think we've agreed that as NM it's important that I gain as much overall knowledge of the system as possible, and designing reports is something I think I can do, I'm not expected to do it as part of my day to day job. This is what the data manager is being paid for, atleast that's how it's currently sitting here.

 

Also, if a school appoints a new NM knowing he has little previous experience of SIMS (I'd say a very likely possibility) then they are hardly going to blame the NM for lack of knowledge

[creese]

Stepping over what that says about a teacher who probably knew for more than a day that OFSTED are coming... Is the NM the right person to be designing reports? We've been discussing this alot here since we are just starting the move over to SIMS from a lesser MIS. I think we've agreed that as NM it's important that I gain as much overall knowledge of the system as possible, and designing reports is something I think I can do, I'm not expected to do it as part of my day to day job. This is what the data manager is being paid for, atleast that's how it's currently sitting here.

 

Also, if a school appoints a new NM knowing he has little previous experience of SIMS (I'd say a very likely possibility) then they are hardly going to blame the NM for lack of knowledge

 

You are missing the point, which is the claim that someone could learn SIMS 'completley' in a week. They can't. therefore there is no point in the OP planning to attend an interview (which I'm sure he/she will not) believing they are an expert in SIMS by reading a manual.

[Sarconia]

If you do not grasp the relationship between Timetable, Academic Management and the rest of SIMS you are totally screwed. I have helped some schools out who thought they were well organised only for me to explain to them that some of their basics were wrong!

To understand SIMS totally is a massive learning curve! And the more you learn the more you realise how little you did actually know in the first place!

 

That's true, I understand how everything links together in SIMS.net fairly well but I'm always learning new things. At the moment I'm having a nice 3-way headbang between a school, myself and an exam board (yes it is the usual one) over BTEC basedata/results. Nobody seems to know what's going on (the exams officer is new, I've never dealt with BTEC's before and the exam board is clueless). Trying to make sense of it all, well... I'll get there in the end, it's just that getting to that point with virtually zero guidance is difficult.

 

For an NM though, I'd say all you'd really need to know is the technical side of SIMS.net, how to perform upgrades and installations.

[vikpaw]

interesting points both of you.

@OP; - i would ask at interview what level of interaction will be needed with SIMS. I believe that even a data manager shouldn't be doing all of the grunt work, making and editing reports. I argue that the role to a degree is overall management and teaching people to make their own reports. Yes it can be done, but as usage of SIMS grows across all staff, the role needs to be more of an enabler rather than a doer. I always advise that there comes a key moment when a Data Processor is needed in addition to the Data Manager, so the DM (no Danger Mouse jokes please ) fixes problems but the DP implements the solution, and does catchup for where teachers really are too busy.

[tmcd35]

You are missing the point, which is the claim that someone could learn SIMS 'completley' in a week. They can't. therefore there is no point in the OP planning to attend an interview (which I'm sure he/she will not) believing they are an expert in SIMS by reading a manual.

 

Not entirely, no. I accept that you can't learn SIMS within a week. I don't expect to be able to learn it completely within 2 years. We had the assessment training last week and my head still hurts.

 

The point I'm making is that with regards to the OP I doubt very much any school would be expecting that level of experience week 1 let alone on interview day. If they get it - it's a very nice bonus for them. But there are more important things to worry about in a NM appointmant than if the candidate can create new reports in the schools chosen MIS.

[LeMarchand]

The point I'm making is that with regards to the OP I doubt very much any school would be expecting that level of experience week 1 let alone on interview day. If they get it - it's a very nice bonus for them. But there are more important things to worry about in a NM appointmant than if the candidate can create new reports in the schools chosen MIS.

 

Exactly!

 

Too many people seem more concerned with proving that their own SIMS-fu is the best than addressing the OP's worries.

 

The school isn't asking for a SIMS expert, but has stated that knowledge of SIMS would be desirable. Not having that knowledge is certainly no reason for not applying, and I would encourage ASM to stick to his/her plan of doing some research and explaining the situation at interview (if called).

[creese]

Exactly!

 

Too many people seem more concerned with proving that their own SIMS-fu is the best than addressing the OP's worries.

 

The school isn't asking for a SIMS expert, but has stated that knowledge of SIMS would be desirable. Not having that knowledge is certainly no reason for not applying, and I would encourage ASM to stick to his/her plan of doing some research and explaining the situation at interview (if called).

 

Again, the OP asked a question it was answered in a way to claim if he was competant enough that learning SIMS in a week was possible. That claim has been refuted. I for one would not like the OP going to an interview claiming to be completely competant with SIMs from the manual. Better that he find out to what degree a knowledge of SIMS is desirable, a simple email would do this. Better still that they do not believe that on getting the job he could learn it in a couple of days. It is quite obvious that it is not a SIMS job and he will not need to know it inside out. But a unrealistic expectation of picking up SIMS that quick should not be made on a forum such as this.

 

I believe from what I have read that the OP is intelligent enough to realise this but other people could read the 'Be a SIMS expert in a week' posting.

Edited July 13, 2010 by creese

[Banjo]

Imagine a situation where you have someone on the phone, almost in tears, they have OFSTED tomorrow and they need a new machine installed and up and churning out reports, like now!!!! No infrastructure and you have to do it over a slow VNC connection....... then design the reports for her/him. Then declarte you only read the manual a couple of days before you were given the job.

 

If that were the case you'd ring your support team and ask for help/visit to get your school through.

 

The important thing with interviews is not the mechanics of using 'Sims' but the good practice of using MIS and data handling in general. These are the skills that the school are looking for, that are then transferable between systems, if the school decides to move MIS.

 

Things to drop into the conversation/interview when asked about handling of data.

 

Privacy notice (FPN)

Data integrity

Data security

Data protection

[creese]

If that were the case you'd ring your support team and ask for help/visit to get your school through.

 

A support team who you have told that you are completely competant after reading the manual. Make sure buy a very large Humble Pie.

 

It's amazing today how the point of this thread is zooming like Harriers over peoples head. To summarise......

1. The OP probably doesn't need a great knowledge of SIMS and may never use SIMS.

2. You cannot learn SIMS in a week.

3. You should not try to bluff your way through and interview.

[localzuk]

A support team who you have told that you are completely competant after reading the manual. Make sure buy a very large Humble Pie.

 

It's amazing today how the point of this thread is zooming like Harriers over peoples head. To summarise......

1. The OP probably doesn't need a great knowledge of SIMS and may never use SIMS.

2. You cannot learn SIMS in a week.

3. You should not try to bluff your way through and interview.

 

Your avatar seems oddly appropriate for this thread...

[Sivadam]

A support team who you have told that you are completely competant after reading the manual. Make sure buy a very large Humble Pie.

 

It's amazing today how the point of this thread is zooming like Harriers over peoples head. To summarise......

1. The OP probably doesn't need a great knowledge of SIMS and may never use SIMS.

2. You cannot learn SIMS in a week.

3. You should not try to bluff your way through and interview.

 

 

Very succinct and very accurate!

 

Well done Creese!

[tmcd35]

It's amazing today how the point of this thread is zooming like Harriers over peoples head. To summarise......

1. The OP probably doesn't need a great knowledge of SIMS and may never use SIMS.

2. You cannot learn SIMS in a week.

3. You should not try to bluff your way through and interview.

 

About sums it all up nicely

[LosOjos]

Can I just point out that the OP was talking about a job where 'SIMS knowledge is desirable'. It was in that context I stated he'd be competent in a week. OK, maybe a week is a bit quick, but in a job that isn't too concerned whether you have SIMS knowledge or not, I doubt they're looking for somebody who can use every aspect of SIMS at a professional level. I never claimed that anybody would be an 'expert' within a week.

 

EDIT: Just want to clarify a little more, by competent to complete the tasks required of what I imagine is a data managers job, I mean the ability to:

Create templates

Import/Export CTF

Enter & update student details

Run basic reports

 

This is by no means an expert, but I do believe that it's enough to get the critical tasks done while you learn how to perform more advanced tasks. Maybe I need a dictionary, but if you are capable of performing the tasks required of you, are you not competent? There is a big gap between competency and expertise.

 

EDIT 2:

@aerospacemango: just wanted to say, regardless of some of the posts here, don't be put off applying for the job, I'm sure you'll be able to pick it up, even if saying in one week was a bit optimistic and liable to get me shot!

Edited July 13, 2010 by LosOjos

[Banjo]

A support team who you have told that you are completely competant after reading the manual. Make sure buy a very large Humble Pie.

 

Why would the OP have told the support team he’s competent? Why would they care, they deal with new starters all the time.

 

This job is in a school, he rings the support team explains they have an inspection and would like a help in preparation for the visit, problem solved.

[vikpaw]

@wesleyw; - i do believe he is. Edited July 13, 2010 by vikpaw
clarity

[vikpaw]

Just to sort of bring things back to topic, it may win the interview or completely kill it, but there is always the point to make that sometimes even the paid for SIMS support isn't as competent as required. You could put that as mildly or as strongly as you like.

 

I'm sure we all have experience of bashing their heads trying to speed through the standard flowchart troubleshooter to prove we really have a serious problem that needs investigating.

 

So, experience of dealing with third party support is something to mention.

[creese]

Your avatar seems oddly appropriate for this thread...

 

It is for the job too. So many people do not listen to what is said, bit like this thread really.

[LosOjos]

It is for the job too. So many people do not listen to what is said, bit like this thread really.

 

Competency != Expertise

 

Can't put it any simpler than that.

 

EDIT: I lied:

 

Competency is not equal to expertise.

 

There, now I can't put it any simpler.

[creese]

I'm sure we all have experience of bashing their heads trying to speed through the standard flowchart troubleshooter to prove we really have a serious problem that needs investigating.

 

There is a flowchart? Show me, now!!! I've ben using my brain, after so much banging in a desk it doesn't work as it used to.

[creese]

Competency != Expertise

 

Can't put it any simpler than that.

 

EDIT: I lied:

 

Competency is not equal to expertise.

 

There, now I can't put it any simpler.

 

Nah, simpler would be 'I retract my staement that SIMS can be completely mastered in a week' That way you would become credable again.

[vikpaw]

Have you got the right permissions?

Have you tried another user?

Have you tried another machine?

Does it work on the server?

What version of SIMS are you using?

Have you tried a new user, with only those permissions required?

Have you got admin rights? Can you try it with admin rights?

Let me try it on my data...

Can you send me your data?