Ladies and Gentlemen - I give you the CON-DEM party.

[aerospacemango]

Personally, I think EVERY Lib-Dem voter should hang their head in shame.

 

Just 13 months ago, at the Lib-Dem spring Conference, Nick Clegg (who he?) said (And I paraphrase here) "We will NEVER be in coalition with the Conservatives. Everyone wants to be in an alliance with us. We will make no alliances."

 

And yet, who is David Cameron's toady, a mere year later?

 

He should be ashamed of himself. Have the courage of his convictions, and force another election.....Not be dragged into a coalition govt. THAT is what the Lib-Dems didn't want, and yet they were led blindly into it, by a leader with his eyes open. The hypocrisy is enormous.

 

Now, don't get me started on the Tories, who would decimate the public sector, whilst the private sector drink the champagne.

 

When you, or I, or any of us, start to lose our jobs.....Try to remember that it was Labour who wanted the Public Sector to help us out of recession. The Private sector have little interest in the recession....they can just find another war to support. But, it's OUR jobs that are now at risk......Not some Merchant banker (In ALL meanings of the phrase) who's gonna lose THEIR jobs, even though they are the ones who have forced this on us!

[MbroTech]

If you need a prenup then what is the point of getting married? If you start out not trusting, where is there to go?

[MbroTech]

Personally, I think EVERY Lib-Dem voter should hang their head in shame.

 

Just 13 months ago, at the Lib-Dem spring Conference, Nick Clegg (who he?) said (And I paraphrase here) "We will NEVER be in coalition with the Conservatives. Everyone wants to be in an alliance with us. We will make no alliances."

 

And yet, who is David Cameron's toady, a mere year later?

 

He should be ashamed of himself. Have the courage of his convictions, and force another election.....Not be dragged into a coalition govt. THAT is what the Lib-Dems didn't want, and yet they were led blindly into it, by a leader with his eyes open. The hypocrisy is enormous.

 

Now, don't get me started on the Tories, who would decimate the public sector, whilst the private sector drink the champagne.

 

When you, or I, or any of us, start to lose our jobs.....Try to remember that it was Labour who wanted the Public Sector to help us out of recession. The Private sector have little interest in the recession....they can just find another war to support. But, it's OUR jobs that are now at risk......Not some Merchant banker (In ALL meanings of the phrase) who's gonna lose THEIR jobs, even though they are the ones who have forced this on us!

 

I was looking for the LIKE button for a moment

[LosOjos]

Personally, I think EVERY Lib-Dem voter should hang their head in shame.

 

Just 13 months ago, at the Lib-Dem spring Conference, Nick Clegg (who he?) said (And I paraphrase here) "We will NEVER be in coalition with the Conservatives. Everyone wants to be in an alliance with us. We will make no alliances."

 

And yet, who is David Cameron's toady, a mere year later?

 

He should be ashamed of himself. Have the courage of his convictions, and force another election.....Not be dragged into a coalition govt. THAT is what the Lib-Dems didn't want, and yet they were led blindly into it, by a leader with his eyes open. The hypocrisy is enormous.

 

Now, don't get me started on the Tories, who would decimate the public sector, whilst the private sector drink the champagne.

 

When you, or I, or any of us, start to lose our jobs.....Try to remember that it was Labour who wanted the Public Sector to help us out of recession. The Private sector have little interest in the recession....they can just find another war to support. But, it's OUR jobs that are now at risk......Not some Merchant banker (In ALL meanings of the phrase) who's gonna lose THEIR jobs, even though they are the ones who have forced this on us!

 

This is exactly why I'm so p'd that it's happened: I voted Lib Dem because I thought it was time for a change (sorry, I'm as sick of hearing that phrase as anybody) but didn't want to hand over to the Tories as I knew Labour's policies suited me better. Lib Dem weren't a far cry from Labour, so seemed the obvious choice to me. Then lo and behold, they form a coalition and hand all those votes over to Cameron on a silver platter. Clegg is a no mark in this coalition, and while Cameron may pass a few token Lib Dem policies, I'm certain that eventually this "Con Dem" party will be nothing more than Tories in disguise. It's an outrage, and should not be legal in my opinion, they're exact opposite parties!

 

EDIT:

BTW, i totally disagree that Lib Dem voters should be ashamed, how were we to know we were going to be lied to and have our votes abused like this? What I think we should be is outraged, and should lobby the government to hold another election and recognise the farce that is this coalition.

Edited June 17, 2010 by LosOjos

[Sarconia]

If you need a prenup then what is the point of getting married? If you start out not trusting, where is there to go?

 

It's not really about trust for me, yes I would trust the person who I was getting married to if I ever happened to do so, they can go out, see friends, do whatever the heck they want as long as long as they're not in a romantic relationship with anyone else. It's more of a piece of mind/just in case(although I hope not)/all bases covered/contingency plan - I wouldn't want to be left up the Khyber Pass without an AK47.

[DrCheese]

Personally, I think EVERY Lib-Dem voter should hang their head in shame.

Why? The party I voted for now has the power to get some of it's policies through. Would you haters seriously preferred either a Tory majority government now, or a Tory majority government later when a minority government would have collapsed horribly and Cameron went back to the polls, likely coming back with a thumping majority able to smash through whatever bills it felt like because that's exactly what would have happened if the Lib Dems only supported a confidence and supply agreement.

 

The Lib Dems would have lost even more votes if Cameron was able to paint them as being responsible for preventing the government from getting any bills through. At least this way they have a say and can influence the government.

 

If you need a prenup then what is the point of getting married? If you start out not trusting, where is there to go?

 

The prenup is to make it much harder for each side to randomly go back on it's word and prevents Cameron from throwing it away whenever he feels the wind is changing and calling another election. Sure he could in theory still do that, but then the liberals would have ammo to use against him in the election.

 

 

All of you liberal voters saying that this should be illegal ought to have bothered to read the lib dem manfesto before voting for them. They want to bring in full PR which would make these type of agreements commonplace after elections, which is a good thing as it prevents one party from steamrolling over the rest of the government and forcing crazy policies through, eg Labour and it's ID card system/28 day detention without charge

Edited June 17, 2010 by DrCheese

[MbroTech]

As far as I can see we have just had what the Tories said they were going to do anyway, and what the Lib Dems stood against. I can't see any of it tempered, and all on some pipedream of a referendum on PR that the conservatives said they would campaign against anyway (and still haven't promised to put it in law should the referendum be in the affirmative).

[LosOjos]

Why? The party I voted for now has the power to get some of it's policies through. Would you haters seriously preferred either a Tory majority government now, or a Tory majority government later when a minority government would have collapsed horribly and Cameron went back to the polls, likely coming back with a thumping majority able to smash through whatever bills it felt like because that's exactly what would have happened if the Lib Dems only supported a confidence and supply agreement.

 

The Lib Dems would have lost even more votes if Cameron was able to paint them as being responsible for preventing the government from getting any bills through. At least this way they have a say and can influence the government.

 

 

 

The prenup is to make it much harder for each side to randomly go back on it's word and prevents Cameron from throwing it away whenever he feels the wind is changing and calling another election.

 

Lost votes from who? By definition, Lib Dem & Labour voters are the exact opposite to Tory voters, I can't see any of them complaining that Lib Dem didn't help out the Tories! What is the point in voting if the original parties can just decide to form a new party and take those votes with them? It's a complete sham of a system.

 

Personally I think the right thing to do would be to pass the bills enabling the reformed voting system, then immediately hold another general election. If Tories win then fair enough, I'll accept that it's because most of the country wanted them in power, what I can't accept is that they have weaseled their way in by exploiting the fact Clegg is a weak minded, lying sell out who has forgotten all his promises for a shot at the big time.

[DrCheese]

Lost votes from who? Those who thought that the liberal vote was a wasted vote at the last election. Labour would have had a field day campaigning on that ground. Sure that may still happen, but at least this way they have a chance at power and can prove to the country they can run things instead of constantly being laughed off stage and virtually ignored.

 

Personally I think the right thing to do would be to pass the bills enabling the reformed voting system, then immediately hold another general election.

Which would have never ever happened if the Conservatives had won a massive majority, or if Labour wasn't afraid of the Liberal vote. Labour half heartedly supported the AV+ system at it's first two general elections but dropped it when they gained such a massive majority from the FPTP system.

[LosOjos]

Lost votes from who? Those who thought that the liberal vote was a wasted vote at the last election. Labour would have had a field day campaigning on that ground. Sure that may still happen, but at least this way they have a chance at power and can prove to the country they can run things instead of constantly being laughed off stage and virtually ignored.

 

Do you really, honestly believe that beyond a few token gestures, Cameron is going to pass anything of significance that Clegg proposes?

 

Which would have never ever happened if the Conservatives had won a massive majority, or if Labour wasn't afraid of the Liberal vote. Labour half heartedly supported the AV+ system at it's first two general elections but dropped it when they gained such a massive majority from the FPTP system.

 

And what makes you think it's going to happen now? Cameron is quite clearly in charge, what makes you think he is going to backtrack now? Clegg has already proved he's willing to backtrack on his previous convictions by joining with Cameron in the first place, it's against everything that Lib Dem have ever claimed to be about

[aerospacemango]

I should also say that I VERY NEARLY voted Lib-Dem, as I could see that Labour would not retain a majority. I thought long and hard about this, because I honestly believed that the Lib-Dem's might have a chance at winning.

 

In the end, I voted with my head, my conscience and my heart.......As a true working class person, I was only going to vote one way, and that is how it was.

 

The Lib-Dem's have sold their soul in a Faustian pact. This will rebound on them, next time round, as they will not be seen as a Governmental Party, but as a party that swerves to wherever is best for them.

[LosOjos]

I should also say that I VERY NEARLY voted Lib-Dem, as I could see that Labour would not retain a majority. I thought long and hard about this, because I honestly believed that the Lib-Dem's might have a chance at winning.

 

In the end, I voted with my head, my conscience and my heart.......As a true working class person, I was only going to vote one way, and that is how it was.

 

The Lib-Dem's have sold their soul in a Faustian pact. This will rebound on them, next time round, as they will not be seen as a Governmental Party, but as a party that swerves to wherever is best for them.

 

Couldn't agree more, I'm just utterly furious that this joke of an election has been allowed to happen and that I and many others have been taken for a mug by that slime ball Nick Clegg.

[MbroTech]

If Cameron had any wherewithall he could save even more money by abolishing the role of Deputy Prime Minister

[srochford]

Oooo! I have always wanted to go there! Just for a visit mind.

 

Just remember that it's a very Catholic country so if you go at Easter pretty much everything is closed on the Sunday and Monday (but other than that, it's an excellent place to go)

[Hightower]

I think you need to be a little more careful with your choice of words. Making out that the poor getting rich is a bad thing is not really a very sensible thing to say. Making out that the scroungers and wastrels of society are having a cushy life and that is wrong? Now that is a sensible thing to say.

 

You, my friend, are correct. Maybe what I posted didn't come across as I intended. I have family who live/have lived on the poverty line, and they work hard to survive. I have also seen lazy scoundrels (including other members of family) living the life of Richard Branson and I still fail to understand how this is possible. The country is broken, very broken - and although Conservatives may not be everyone's cup of tea (I didn't vote for them either), I've seen MY country go down the pan over the past 13 years and something has got to give.

 

I'm hopeful the Tories will be able to get us down the right path again. I'm hopeful jobs will be created for those that want them. I'm hopeful that tax payers' money will be spent on the NHS, education, our roads (because we pay a hell of a lot for them!), and NOT on Henley t-shirts and G-Star jeans.

[MbroTech]

That'll be why they just cut hospital building programmes, roads and job creation schemes then, with school cuts imminent - announcement to follow apparently.

 

The country hasn't gone down the pan over the last 13 years, but it has struggled to cope with the legacy of the 1980s and the selling off of social housing stock, the selling off of public utilities and services, the mass unemployment and a trickle down approach to finances which hoped that money fed it at the very top would trickle down to those at the bottom, whereas what actually happened was those at the top just kept it, thankyou very much.

 

Once the family silver was sold, and the social problems were exarcerbated, how exactly do you pull yourself out of that - revenue streams gone to line another fat cats pockets.

 

At least tax credits were some attempt at redistribution of wealth, and we wouldn't be in the current financial state if it wasn't for the US causing a global problem.

[GrumbleDook]

I sometimes puzzle at the way the media and some people portray 'the rich' .... as the evil people in the country. DB has covered in previous posts / threads about how the money that the rich have is used to create more money in this country rather than other countries ...

 

It is also seen to be better to come into money from gambling (lottery win, pools, etc) than by inheritance. I sometimes put this in the same category as people wanting to be famous for being famous rather than for have a skill or having worked hard.

 

I'm now middle-class. I come from a very working class background and I am glad I am out of there ... my wife is in the same position. We don't claim to be any better than others, apart from the fact that we have had a bit of luck at times (eg being in the right place for the right job), but worked hard to make use of those opportunities.

 

I accept that tightening my belt for me is not going to mean the same pain that others have to go through ... and that I will have to rely on people with a lot more money and position to me getting their businesses or investments working right for this country. I don't have a problem with a lot of the cuts ... compared to other cuts I am willing to take them. I am also enough of a realist to know that some of the cuts that happen right now might be temporary (not just suspended pending review but reappear as different projects 2-3 years down the line) and that it is not a bad idea to have a serious spending review. We all know there is wastage or that some decisions about funding things were political, but I would rather be cautious, take my time on what money is spent on and try to get people to make the most of what they have already got.

 

Front line cuts will happen ... it just depends on what you call front line. It might be that there will not be new front line services (cutting the hospital), it might be that people have to change the jobs they do (local Govt reorganising could me more staff focussed on social care rather than paperwork) or it might be that expensive front line services are replaced with cheaper options (why employ a teacher on UPS3 when you can get someone just out of their NQT year).

 

No matter what happens, I don't expect to see massive tax hikes on the rich (who can afford to avoid them if they want to) but it will be pay freezes for folk like me, and cuts to benefits to those who can't prove they need it. I just feel sorry for those who will get caught in the last bit unfairly ... it will happen.

[mattx]

 

I'm now middle-class. I come from a very working class background and I am glad I am out of there ... my wife is in the same position. We don't claim to be any better than others, apart from the fact that we have had a bit of luck at times (eg being in the right place for the right job), but worked hard to make use of those opportunities.

 

 

 

 

Middle Class ? I thought John Major wanted a 'Classless Society?' I remember the quote well back in 1990 as I could not stop myself laughing after the rubbish came out of his gob. It seems his plan didn't work - never mind John - most probably enjoying his Curry.

[MbroTech]

The main thing about todays cuts though is that the majority of the public voted against them. Both Labour and the Lib Dems supported spend this year and cut the year after to consolidate the recovery.

 

Clegg himself said this was a mistake when debating with Cameron in the TV debates. Seems those that agreed with Nick are now finding that he didn't agree with himself.

[mattx]

Did you see Cameron on the news at the Euro summit ? He looked so out of his comfort zone it was laughable. What's more laughable is the promise of not cutting front line services in their Manifesto !! What do they do ? Scrap the hospital up north that's desperately needed. You can tell the Tories are back already can't you ? And with the Lib Dem puppy dogs lapping at their heals and a budget to get their pals richer it's back to high un-employment, boom and bust economics and no industry. Never mind.......

[MbroTech]

Cameron did say prior the the election that the North East would be a target for cuts (again) as he said that the tax spend was highest.

 

 

However later research showed that the tax spend in the region is infact average for the UK (that is pounds per head) and that actually the highest is London!

[aerospacemango]

That'll be why they just cut hospital building programmes, roads and job creation schemes then, with school cuts imminent - announcement to follow apparently.

 

The country hasn't gone down the pan over the last 13 years, but it has struggled to cope with the legacy of the 1980s and the selling off of social housing stock, the selling off of public utilities and services, the mass unemployment and a trickle down approach to finances which hoped that money fed it at the very top would trickle down to those at the bottom, whereas what actually happened was those at the top just kept it, thankyou very much.

 

Once the family silver was sold, and the social problems were exarcerbated, how exactly do you pull yourself out of that - revenue streams gone to line another fat cats pockets.

 

At least tax credits were some attempt at redistribution of wealth, and we wouldn't be in the current financial state if it wasn't for the US causing a global problem.

 

Agree with all of this......I could write a short treatise on the socio-economic problems caused by Thatcherism....but it would bore everyone to death............Probably!!!!

[PiqueABoo]

I just feel sorry for those who will get caught in the last bit unfairly ... it will happen.

Absolutely .. and you know what most of the victims will have in common? Honesty.

 

--

"Local Authority Leader Boards: £16m" <= You'd probably get at least twice that if everyone (indefensibly) earning over £200K of public money per annum in LAs had that cut in half - just waiting for it to happen in some govern-by-example Tory controlled councils alongside the pay freezes for everyone beneath those folk. Should I hold my breath?

[torledo]

Do you really, honestly believe that beyond a few token gestures, Cameron is going to pass anything of significance that Clegg proposes?

 

er, yes.

 

for instance scrapping of tax credits for middle earners. The tories have compromised on the threshold from 40k to 30k. Victory of sorts for the libdems.

 

also CGT. there will be some movement on this, it's difficult because the tax has always had exemptions and probably will have some taper relief...that again is compromise not just the libdems going along for the ride. some of the libdem ideas which grabbed the headlines, as i predicted, were always going to be difficult if not impossible to implement during the parliament. That's the difference between being in govt. and being the third party...complaining about that and the end result of a coalition is sour grapes.

 

as for those on here complaining about capital projects. one of the vehicles labour used to fund building of schools and hospitals was PFI. Which not only lumbered us with paying a multiple of the actual cost of such projects but also didn't properly transfer the risk of such projects to the private sector.

 

Let' face it, labour were a bunch of wastrels. I don't know whether it's because people in the public sector can't see beyond their own noses that we don't see the huge amount of waste and moral hazard they brought with them. Already in just a few short months the new govt. is proving more up to the job of restoring some sanity following the madness of the noughties, that labour ever had the intention to do. for that alone, they are better than labour.

 

ofcourse there are going to be some retrograde steps, but i think we'll get more meaningful reform and less in the way of unsustainable govt. spending from the coalition.

[PiqueABoo]

Let' face it, labour were a bunch of wastrels. I don't know whether it's because people in the public sector can't see beyond their own noses that we don't see the huge amount of waste and moral hazard they brought with them. Already in just a few short months the new govt. is proving more up to the job of restoring some sanity following the madness of the noughties, that labour ever had the intention to do. for that alone, they are better than labour.

 

Agreed. I've gone from 'hell in a handcart" to "glimmer of hope", however what a new gov talks about doing and what they do, especially given all the unexpected things that will come along and compete for attention (e.g. who'd have thunk Afghanistan and Iraq back in 1997?), are two different things.