An Open Source MIS

[garrysaddington]

If an Open Source MIS existed that met all of the necessary government standards, who on this list would actively contribute to such a project and who would support it? Please be honest because your responses could result in the release of a MIS that is indeed open source and free.

[AntiThesis]

If it helps, I'd contribute simply because it's a good idea - we have a system that we're going to have to use unfortunately but it's still a worthwhile project.

[mjs_mjs]

I've been wanting to do one for a long time now. I think there are other projects out there doing the same tho.

[webman]

It's not a new idea.

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/31766-open-source.html (thread on EduGeek)

FreeMIS | Get FreeMIS at SourceForge.net

SchoolTool: free gradebook, attendance, calendars and more.

[Sarconia]

It's not a new idea.

 

Indeed, I'm not 100% sure why it hasn't taken off yet though... probably due to the DCSF changing their mind about various issues every 3-6 months and that most regular users seem to be afraid of open source.

[dhicks]

If an Open Source MIS existed that met all of the necessary government standards, who on this list would actively contribute to such a project and who would support it?

 

There's nothing to stop me installing an open source MIS system on a spare VM somewhere, but it'd have to do something that people wanted it to do before they would get around to using it, and some problem that needed solving that such a system would be suited to solving would need to turn up before I could jusify spending any development time on (I'm not inclined to work on MIS' in my own time). That said, the "something that people wanted it to do" bit could well be reporting and results analysis - we currently seem to email around a confusing collection of Word / Excel files for editing by assorted people, something centralised and web-based would be useful.

 

--

David Hicks

[garrysaddington]

It's not a new idea.

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/31766-open-source.html (thread on EduGeek)

FreeMIS | Get FreeMIS at SourceForge.net

SchoolTool: free gradebook, attendance, calendars and more.

 

I know it's not a new idea, but no one has ever released anything that can replace SIMS/SERCO et al. and do all the government returns. I am talking about the release of a complete, ready to use MIS, not a pie in the sky project.

Edited May 19, 2010 by garrysaddington

[vikpaw]

I would contribute if i could, though don't have much time to spend unless it's sorting out the MIS we do have..

[garrysaddington]

Most regular users seem to be afraid of open source.

 

Do you have a source for this assertion, as it may help in our decisions.

As an aside, why are UK educational institutions which are in fact multi million pound businesses and supposedly run by intelligent people so far behind in their IT use. Real businesses are embracing open source technology with open arms and are profiting by it.

[powdarrmonkey]

Hmm this comes up over and over again, and the problem is always momentum: to get decent feedback about what's working and what's not, you need a school that adopts it in a live environment. You'll find it hard work persuading anybody to take that kind of risk with their school system...

 

On another note, I'd only be prepared to contribute if it's under a truly free license, not just publicly-viewable source. However, I can't promise any involvement at the moment.

[Jamo]

Do you have a source for this assertion, as it may help in our decisions.

As an aside, why are UK educational institutions which are in fact multi million pound businesses and supposedly run by intelligent people so far behind in their IT use. Real businesses are embracing open source technology with open arms and are profiting by it.

 

I think from what I have heard, people are 'scared' of being on their own in terms of support. My school didn't want to use Joomla or Moodle because I was the only person who knew about them in depth and could set one up and manage it. A lot of schools totally rely on outside support for their infrastructure. I have found it a little odd at times not spending the money on training instead.

[garrysaddington]

Hmm this comes up over and over again, and the problem is always momentum: to get decent feedback about what's working and what's not, you need a school that adopts it in a live environment. You'll find it hard work persuading anybody to take that kind of risk with their school system...

 

On another note, I'd only be prepared to contribute if it's under a truly free license, not just publicly-viewable source. However, I can't promise any involvement at the moment.

 

We already have two schools using it and it was trialled in another for 4 years. It will be released under the Open Software license V3 or the GNU Affero license.

[powdarrmonkey]

Who is 'we' and 'us' in this context?

[Jamo]

We already have two schools using it and it was trialled in another for 4 years. It will be released under the Open Software license V3 or the GNU Affero license.

 

Are these licences similar to Fronter which is apparently Open Software? The only thing Open about that is the large flaws within its codebase

 

[garrysaddington]

Are these licences similar to Fronter which is apparently Open Software? The only thing Open about that is the large flaws within its codebase

 

 

No they are both licenses approved by the Free Software foundation and the Open Source Initiative.

The we in this context is the organisation formed to provide support services around the release of an Open Source MIS. Before someone gets the wrong idea, could I stress that the software will be totally open source, totally free (as in speech and as in beer!) and not some cut down version devised to get schools to upgrade to an 'enterprise' version.

[CyberNerd]

Indeed, I'm not 100% sure why it hasn't taken off yet though... probably due to the DCSF changing their mind about various issues every 3-6 months and that most regular users seem to be afraid of open source.

 

DCSF has been rebranded already, it's now the DfE: Home - Department for Education

When they get downsized, and Becta scrapped they'll probably be less changes

[GrumbleDook]

No they are both licenses approved by the Free Software foundation and the Open Source Initiative.

The we in this context is the organisation formed to provide support services around the release of an Open Source MIS. Before someone gets the wrong idea, could I stress that the software will be totally open source, totally free (as in speech and as in beer!) and not some cut down version devised to get schools to upgrade to an 'enterprise' version.

 

So what we are talking about it that schools can so with it as they want, but then they might pay for support and training. Who pays for the development when DfE change things? (like the fields due to name changes of govt departments) ... I know OSS means they could do it themselves, but how many schools really have that time or expertise in a sustainable form?

[timzim]

totally free (as in speech and as in beer!)

 

You must mean imaginary..??

[powdarrmonkey]

The we in this context is the organisation formed to provide support services around the release of an Open Source MIS.

 

Yes, but... who? Reputation matters enormously in the free world.

[garrysaddington]

Yes, but... who? Reputation matters enormously in the free world.

 

The developers.

[garrysaddington]

You must mean imaginary..??

 

Do I detect a note of disbelief here?

[painejake]

I would be interested in contributing to such a project providing it was coded with C# .net (Only one i'm familiar enough with)

 

I'm not sure if I could see it going anywhere though unless a large dedicated development team was involved and /or some sort of funding behind the project.

Edited May 19, 2010 by painejake

[Soulfish]

I'd be interested in knowing more about this project as well

[pete]

I'd be interested, but support, stability and meeting changing government requirements will make or break it.

 

1) The next time the government decides to change the census goalposts, how quickly can you adapt the software to suit?

2) Is there decent support at an appropriate level to a) a primary school "person stuck with MIS managment role" b) me c) an LEA rolling it out across a borough?

3) Is it stable and secure - in the case of things dealing with pupil data, has there been an independent code review?

4) How well does it handle mangled data from other MIS? This will happen and it must do so gracefully - getting another school not to be rubbish at producing .ctf files in an exercise in futility.

 

We run the usual FOSS software in school, but much of it is immune to the usual .gov "while we already have this data in SystemA, we need you to return it again in this format for use in SystemB" idiocy.

Edited May 19, 2010 by pete

[garrysaddington]

I would be interested in contributing to such a project providing it was coded with C# .net (Only one i'm familiar enough with)

 

I'm not sure if I could see it going anywhere though unless a large dedicated development team was involved and /or some sort of funding behind the project.

 

It's web based and apart from other things built using Python,Zope,Postgres,Apache amongst others and is supported on Windows server 2008/2003. As far as the development effort goes, it is a finished product that will obviously need maintenance and customisation to fit varying needs. The development team is backed by a multi million pound company from the Midlands.

Edited May 19, 2010 by garrysaddington