Querying: Apprenticeships

[dwhyte85]

Hello,

 

We've had a resignation from one of our IT Techs, as we have two seniors in IT we think it may be beneficial to try get an apprentice rather than a trainee.

 

How does it work?

 

I remember from my days at VW @ Heathrow I was paid very little and offered training... is this still how it works? I am thinking that to train someone up would be better as we'd have longer retention of staff and they'd benefit from the training, we'd benefit from the ability they're learning.

 

Can anyone with experience within an ICT apprentice role or has employed an apprentice give any feedback?

[Potato-Peeler]

I did an IT apprenticeship 3 years ago and I thought it was very worthwile. You get paid a pittance, 95 quid a week now i believe, but you get a start in IT. its a brilliant way to start an IT career, and a lot of places around here swear by them Though you do get the odd divvy...

[dwhyte85]

Yes, I may have been one of those divvys at Cordwallis fixing commercial vehicles

 

I would love to do this but have concerns about a school leaver working in this environment, if the candidate was male it would be difficult in an all female school... especially if he received any attention from the girls, luckily I'm ugly as sin, pale white and ginger - yes we have souls. Female would be OK but then they may find physical aspects of the job difficult, not to stereotype - just stating my opinions, I know people may take that wrong but it is not my intention (bearing in mind it could be a 16 year old).

 

Expectations of a apprentice would be my concern, I wouldn't know how to push them - how were you treated, did you shadow for several weeks or go off on your own and ask questions?

[IanT]

I was thinking about this the other day about Apprenticeships and was going to ask the head if we can maybe go down this route to get someone.............

[Kitkatninja]

We're currently putting one of our tech's thru an IT apprenticeship. This is some of the experiences:

 

1. Has to be on a recognised training scheme, we've put him on one thru a college (see here).

 

2. It's 4 days at work, 1 day at college.

 

3. Depending on age and Government funding it can be free or your organisation may have to pay for it.

 

4. For the first year, the minimum wage that a apprentice earns is £95, then after a years satisfactory service it goes up to minimum wage.

 

5. The NVQ program can start at level 1 (comparable to GCSC D-G) and can go all the way up to NVQ level 5 (Master's degree level), if you can find a provider up to that level, most go up to NVQ level 3 or 4*

 

*NVQ do not use the new 8 tier NQF, they use the pre 2006 one which is a 5 level NQF.

 

6. After they gain the NVQ 3, and the relevant experience. They can go for the C&G's LCGI (level 4) Diploma and the ICTTech award from the ECUK/IET.

 

If you have any other questions, just questions, just ask

 

-Ken

[dwhyte85]

Thanks for responses.

 

Unfortunately, because we have no procedure in place and as time is short for this particular role we will be looking for a trainee ICT technician. We will be putting in the foundation for an apprenticeship based on wagnerk's input & the apprenticeship website and hopefully looking for an apprentice in the summer.

 

I will be linking to the job from eTeach / school website as and when it's put up.

[mb2k01]

As someone who has employed various NVQs as well as been one himself, I can honest say it is well worthwhile - for the individual as well as the company/school.

Wagnerk's information above is top class too - spot on.

 

Shortsighted people will often say that opting for an apprentice is a form of cheap labour, or getting someone to do the jobs that others just won't want to do (I've heard them all!). It isn't though.

It is often a chance for the individual to get their foot on the ladder, earn money, get quality training as well as experience and knowledge. It is an amazing opportunity for them to progress, while it also allows the employer flexibility with their staffing as well as the clear reward side too etc.

Go for it!

[INeedAUsername]

Were thinking of an apprentice (plus ICT Tech; will post up when it is confirmed)

 

I definatley think having an apprentice will help us but dont know the first thing - also not sure how to 'train' them - EG would the college ask for the apprentice to be taught/shown certain things for their qulaification or is that upto us?

[witch]

Just FYI - I have never come across an aspect of this job that I havent been able to cope with - yes, lifting heavy kit is a problem but a) it is a problem for many young thin and un-muscled male techs! and b) a clever person can always find another way.

Also you forget the advantage a female might have in that her hands are often smaller and can get into places to unscrew things that men with bigger hands have a problem with.

So please don't ever think that a woman can't do the job as well as a man - she may do it slightly differently but it gets done!

[Kitkatninja]

...I definatley think having an apprentice will help us but dont know the first thing - also not sure how to 'train' them - EG would the college ask for the apprentice to be taught/shown certain things for their qulaification or is that upto us?

 

Yes and No, the apprenticeship program incorporates the NVQ program. They will be taught 1 day a week at college, but the rest would have to be done thru work (via on the job learning/job shadowing, giving them a book/cbt to learn, hands-on practice, etc). Evidence is then taken thru a variety of means like witness statements, personal statements and observations, etc...

 

The NVQ itself is made up of X amount of mandatory unit (they have to do it) and X amount of optional units (they still have to do it, but they have a choice of what they want to do).

 

-Ken

[Kitkatninja]

Just FYI - I have never come across an aspect of this job that I havent been able to cope with - yes, lifting heavy kit is a problem but a) it is a problem for many young thin and un-muscled male techs! and b) a clever person can always find another way.

Also you forget the advantage a female might have in that her hands are often smaller and can get into places to unscrew things that men with bigger hands have a problem with.

So please don't ever think that a woman can't do the job as well as a man - she may do it slightly differently but it gets done!

 

I agree, it doesn't matter if the person is male or female, both can do the job equally great (or equally not-so-good - depending on the person).

 

I do have to say that the last 3 times we advertised, I believe in the 60+ applications we received (for the 3 jobs over the last 5 1/2 years) we only had 1 or 2 females apply

 

-ken

[witch]

I agree, it doesn't matter if the person is male or female, both can do the job equally great (or equally not-so-good - depending on the person).

 

I do have to say that the last 3 times we advertised, I believe in the 60+ applications we received (for the 3 jobs over the last 5 1/2 years) we only had 1 or 2 females apply

 

-ken

 

 

I know and it is a real shame. Just seen a girl who is finishing a btec in IT though, ideally suited for a job as a tech and seems keen so I shall be trying to help her find something locally

[glennda]

I personally wish i had got onto an Apprenticeship type course when i first got my job in IT 19 months ago at the age of 17, as although i have learn't a lot i don't have any qualifications to say that I know what im talking about - which is a shame as i really want to be starting to move on soon up and off to better things!!

[Kitkatninja]

I personally wish i had got onto an Apprenticeship type course when i first got my job in IT 19 months ago at the age of 17, as although i have learn't a lot i don't have any qualifications to say that I know what im talking about - which is a shame as i really want to be starting to move on soon up and off to better things!!

 

Ever thought about seeing if there's funding in your area for the NVQ program or even a full apprenticeship? In some area/colleges they have limited funded places for over 18's. Got an e-mail thru from our local college to say that they have limited funded places.

 

You may be able to jump straight to level 3 (bypassing level 2). You never know.

 

Alternatively there's always the HNC/HND/degree route part-time in the evenings (for 2 to 5 years at 2 evenings a week). And/or there's FITS level 4 & 5

 

-Ken

[ljlbray]

I did an IT apprenticeship 3 years ago and I thought it was very worthwile. You get paid a pittance, 95 quid a week now i believe, but you get a start in IT. its a brilliant way to start an IT career, and a lot of places around here swear by them Though you do get the odd divvy...

 

I was on £150 for the first year. In the second year you go onto minimum wage if it's a modern apprenticeship...I'm still on a uni course with a few apprentices, and I think if you speak to 80% of the employers of people on my course they'll tell you it's well worth it.

 

I don't know whether skillsbase would cover your area, but they're good to talk to regarding taking on apprentices, and if they don't cover you they'll be able to give you the contact number of someone in your area. They were also looking at offering 'first year free' apprentices when I was last enquiring about getting an apprentice in at our place...

Edited March 8, 2010 by ljlbray
just remembered something else...

[glennda]

Ever thought about seeing if there's funding in your area for the NVQ program or even a full apprenticeship? In some area/colleges they have limited funded places for over 18's. Got an e-mail thru from our local college to say that they have limited funded places.

 

You may be able to jump straight to level 3 (bypassing level 2). You never know.

 

Alternatively there's always the HNC/HND/degree route part-time in the evenings (for 2 to 5 years at 2 evenings a week). And/or there's FITS level 4 & 5

 

-Ken

 

I would love to do something like this, but my problem is i go out and work for another company at the weekends so my evenings are needed to be free to relax!! I am going travelling in October so im going to try and get myself on a MCSE in Server 2008/windows 7 as when i come back i am thinking this will be the most widely used OS, although i think there will still be places using 2003/xp i i might as well do the qualification with the most up to date stuff.

 

Toby

[Mako]

I started two years ago as an apprentice, the first apprentice on the local government scheme in a school, as nearly all apprentices on the scheme here work in County Hall.

 

http://realstart.co.uk/ - NYCC Apprenticeship Scheme

 

Although my post was for an IT Tech, the actual apprenticeship was a Level 2 NVQ in Business and Administration. I completed that and then started a Level 3 in the same subject, and completed that last year. I moved up to full pay after the first NVQ was completed, they increase your pay every quarter and yes - it's peanuts.

 

£80 for the first three months, £100 for the second three months, £125 for the third three months and then £180 up until course completion whereby you slot into the role and adopt the pay scale for your role. I believe they've increased the pay for the increments, but it's still nothing intially. Apprenticeships schemes are vastly different - this is just my own experience.

 

I'm due to start a second level 3, this time in Customer Service, later this month. Even though I'm getting qualifications, none of them have anything to show for ICT... the reason I'm doing these is because they don't have a Training Advisor in my area who is qualified to give the IT Practitioner NVQs, but still it doesn't cost me a penny and it's all good at the end of the day.

 

It's also worth noting that my scheme is 100% work-based. I didn't have to attend college at all, and I wouldn't have it any other way. It's almost perfect being able to work, earn money and get certificates too.

 

I always saw the reality of the fact that I was cheap labour, but after the first year I moved up to full pay (I'm in my third year now) and part of the agreement said that I was to be treated as a full member of staff in terms of rights and duties, so I couldn't be treated like a monkey.

 

This post is getting lengthy already, I could go on and on. PM me if you want to know more. The crux of it is that apprenticeships are good for business! Providing that they're enthusiastic and a valid candidate, instead of someone who's doing it because they have nothing else to do, you're giving them experience in the work place, a starter for earning cash and qualifications at the end... and they're initially cheaper than employing a qualified candidate.

 

Of course, there's more effort from you required to train them up and give them enough know-how with which to undertake their position effectively, but if you're up for that then I'd say it's worth it.

[INeedAUsername]

Yes and No, the apprenticeship program incorporates the NVQ program. They will be taught 1 day a week at college, but the rest would have to be done thru work (via on the job learning/job shadowing, giving them a book/cbt to learn, hands-on practice, etc). Evidence is then taken thru a variety of means like witness statements, personal statements and observations, etc...

 

The NVQ itself is made up of X amount of mandatory unit (they have to do it) and X amount of optional units (they still have to do it, but they have a choice of what they want to do).[/

 

Thanks for the reply, I will speak to the deputy head who may point me to a college who may be able to help with a structured course, programme and outline

 

STariq

[Kitkatninja]

Thanks for the reply, I will speak to the deputy head who may point me to a college who may be able to help with a structured course, programme and outline

 

STariq

 

A couple of colleges/training providers that do apprenticeships/NVQ:

 

1. Cambridge Regional College

2. Tresham College (just started this calendar year)

3. Zenos

 

Just in case

 

-Ken

[Jose]

Yes, I may have been one of those divvys at Cordwallis fixing commercial vehicles

 

I would love to do this but have concerns about a school leaver working in this environment, if the candidate was male it would be difficult in an all female school... especially if he received any attention from the girls, luckily I'm ugly as sin, pale white and ginger - yes we have souls. Female would be OK but then they may find physical aspects of the job difficult, not to stereotype - just stating my opinions, I know people may take that wrong but it is not my intention (bearing in mind it could be a 16 year old).

 

Expectations of a apprentice would be my concern, I wouldn't know how to push them - how were you treated, did you shadow for several weeks or go off on your own and ask questions?

 

I can't believe you would discriminate like this, most offenders are over 35 so your logic is flawed.

All you would need to do is intruct your new pal to use the attention in a positive manner.

[glennda]

i was a school/college leaver when i joined my last school just 5 months older the the oldest students. I had the odd bit of attention from a couple of the girls but i just used to laugh it off and have a joke with the kids about it - there's no point hiding in the corner and ignoring it as they just makes the attention worse - although i always did make sure i was also joking around with another member of staff aswell as the students just to make sure there was no possibility of it being miss interpretated.

 

this was at a mixed secondary school

[rprice]

We have a few staff on various hours in the IT support role, and have done the modern apprentice scheme once, retained one of those but was an overhead for the school in terms of admin.

 

For the past two years we have benefited from taking on people on a year by year basis.

Sounds bad? - let me explain...

 

Well what we found out was that there are University courses that will consider working within a school adequate for a year out in industry.

 

So for the price of one basic IT technician, we get two Uni placement students who have usually completed two years of Uni, and we as a school get to pick the skills to assist.

 

So far we have really benefited from this, and some bring specialist skills like media, animation, video editing to raise the general skills level in the school.

 

Worth considering, about right time now to start asking your local universities. We appoint them in the summer term and are paid from September to July.

 

Worked well here with very willing workers.

[frosty]

Does anyone now have an apprentice in place and working in their Department? I am to get one and just wondered how they sit within the Dept?

[Kitkatninja]

Does anyone now have an apprentice in place and working in their Department?

 

Yes, we have an IT Apprentice at our's. He's about 3/4 of the way thru his NVQ2 and will start his NVQ3 in Jan.

 

I am to get one and just wondered how they sit within the Dept?

 

Well, he kinda sits with his knees bent and back straight, just joking

 

His job title is currently IT Assistant (with a possible review of that in the next 6 months), but his job role is that of a tier 1 tech. To be honest I expect the same level and quality of work from him as I do from a technician not on a apprenticeship. From a job/role point of view, there is no difference between an apprentice and another person who isn't an apprentice (eg a person who has just entered the IT Field) apart from the apprentice goes to college 1 day a week (and the funding/salary, but that shouldn't reflect on the job).

 

-ken

[frosty]

Thanks for your reply. May I ask their age range? What worries me most is what tasks I will be able to get them to do that doesn't involve using administrative rights and who in their right mind would give the administrators password to a sixteen year old? (Mine is to be sixteen)