What to charge for web development

[Mako]

I'm not going to rise to the bait so "delicately" laid in this thread by a particular individual. I will say, however, @ICT_GUY, that some of the invalid code is easily rectified, such as 'Headings as links' can be fixed by simply placing the

element outside of the tag, rather than inside. This will pass validation and should not change the output, unless some stylesheet is involved with those tags. Feel free to slap up a new thread or PM if you would like a validating hand.

 

Someone I went to Sixth Form with now runs his own web design business, and he charges a minimum fee for a standard "brochure" site, something along the lines of £200, then £50 per page thereafter. Or a fixed, but negotiable, fee for sites over a certain number of pages. Based on the responses here, I wouldn't offer an overtime fee based on your salary. You could make quite a wad out of it, playing your cards right. Some good advice here.

 

Unfortunately due to the fact I was previously an apprentice and started development of my school's website as such, I got the web development roped into my job description when I completed my apprenticeship and was offered my job. No extra money for me.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Mako

[ICT_GUY]

I'm not going to rise to the bait so "delicately" laid in this thread by a particular individual. I will say, however, @ICT_GUY, that some of the invalid code is easily rectified, such as 'Headings as links' can be fixed by simply placing the

element outside of the tag, rather than inside. This will pass validation and should not change the output, unless some stylesheet is involved with those tags. Feel free to slap up a new thread or PM if you would like a validating hand.

I will in fact make those changes, thank you.

I am down to 16 errors now, though the rest are embedded in the Theme and I will have to sit there and go through it (or wait for the next update).

 

(update) This is quite Cathartic, I am tracking down errors on the school site now and getting much better at spotting them.

Edited February 25, 2010 by ICT_GUY

[Flakes]

Pricing:

 

50 pound per page for HTML, more for PHP, ASP etc.

 

They must give all information to you for the website, any changes after they have already been agreed upon should be an extra charge.

 

just skipped through the last page here, but use Webdeveloper Add-on for firefox with the inbuilt HTML tidy option to clean up error messages.

[Flakes]

ok i decided to read some more of this post:

 

Ponteland High School < 0 errors, only a few warnings site built from scratch by me.

 

anyway, errors are normal for websites, do you know why, its because of that so so popular browser Internet Explorer there are many cases were you have to use non standard code to make something look right in IE, this is normally the cause for errors.

 

as for charging to keep a website up-to-date there are two routes to take, either charge a yearly/monthly fee depending on how much they think they will need the site updated. if it needs to have news items updated on a monthly basis i would probably go for around 30pound a month.

 

the second route is on the spot and generally works out better, if they want a new page charge 50pound, change to an existing page look at the 20-30 pound mark..

 

play your cards right and you can make a nice bit of income, i currently do allot of web design on the side for other parties. and cause im a shameless self promoter heres my website(in wordpress, wanted something quick lol): | J-Henderson

[Little-Miss]

Did someone say something?

[localzuk]

Make your mind up hunny. You either have not developed the site, or your are spending more time developing it.

 

Oh come on, it is obvious what he said - he has a bog standard Joomla install set up, and from the start it wasn't validating - meaning the default theme is not validating, which means the Joomla package itself is the cause, not him. That is obvious to anyone who is trying to actually be helpful!

 

I can criticize what ever I like. If someone wants to show off their side line business on a public forum then they should expect both positive and negative comments. Unfortunately some people seem to be rather touchy and get all high and mighty.

 

Many thanks for your sweeping racist statement, make you feel important?

 

Criticism is always good, so long as it is constructive. Making out that someone is ripping people off, or making out that they're no good at what they do without actual advice as to how to improve is not helpful.

 

I'm going to give you some constructive criticism now - stop with the negativity and actually start trying to be nice and helpful and you will start getting a positive response. Carry on as you are doing, and I see a very different future for you.

 

Also, just one other thing - there is nothing racist there - Americans are not a race - it is a nationality, made up of many races.

[sparkeh]

Can anyone point me in the right direction in regards to the tax situation for this?

If I am employed by one school but paid by another for website work, am I going to get hit by the taxman for second income or anything?

 

Cheers

[localzuk]

Can anyone point me in the right direction in regards to the tax situation for this?

If I am employed by one school but paid by another for website work, am I going to get hit by the taxman for second income or anything?

 

Cheers

 

It depends on the amount you bring in IIRC. Although, according to this page, you have to fill in a Tax Return Do you need to complete a tax return? : Directgov - Money, tax and benefits

[LosOjos]

Can anyone point me in the right direction in regards to the tax situation for this?

If I am employed by one school but paid by another for website work, am I going to get hit by the taxman for second income or anything?

 

Cheers

 

Technically you should state all additional income on your annual tax return, though you are not liable to pay VAT unless you earn (don't quote me on the figure) roughly £30k a year in any line of business (this would also mean you're entitled to VAT exemption; they net the figure of reclaimed VAT off against the VAT you owe them to reduce your liability). Check your tax code, the numbers signify how much you can earn in a year in your tax band before they start charging you more tax, if you think that the extra cash you'll be getting doing this on top of your wage will push you over that threshold, contact your local tax office (their number will be on your tax slip) to inform them now and they'll tell you the best way to ensure you don't get charged emergency tax

[LosOjos]

Oh and while I think about it, make sure you invoice the school, this serves two purposes: it serves the school a legally binding contract to pay you, and provides evidence for the tax man should they ask you to prove your new income is legitimate

[Michael]

Just to clarify, this is more my domain...by law you should declare all income, whether you're employed, self employed or both. You are required to charge VAT when your turnover exceeds £68,000.

 

If you earned less than £6300 (your basic wage) you're still required to declare it, you'll just pay no tax.

 

My company don't deal with the creation of websites, however if I were to there are several pricing models you could offer potential customers. Basic static websites or database driven websites typically using MySQL and PHP. As for pricing all I can advise is study the market and look at your competitors.

 

For example you could offer a set price for creating the website then an on-going price for maintaining the website. Some customers also request you deal with domain registration and the hosting itself, so there's plenty of areas to offer services.

[browolf]

sorry to hijack!

 

This is quite an interesting thread because ive got a guy who wants me to build him a site to show off his fine art collection (ooer!). This is fine, im happy to do it. The guy knows nothing though ("what will happen to my website when i turn my computer off at night?").

 

But then he mentioned that he would like it updated. Now i've never done that before. Ive usually just create "brochure" sites for startup businesses. How shall i handle it...

 

I suggest creating the site in such a way that the guy can update it himself. It's best to keep things simple as much for you making it and him using it. Also you get to add the cost of training him to use his site. Depending on what other content he wants, it may be helpful to design the site around some existing gallery functionally code such as phpAlbum | PHP Photo Album - Gallery or Coppermine Photo Gallery

[Mako]

 

I've viewed RingOfFlame's posts enough to understand she will respond to theeldergeek's post above. She's not the kind of girl who likes to back down, which in itself is respectable. I'm all for people who stand up for themselves - I'm the same, but it's not appropriate on a public Forum in this sort of thread.

 

Before Mods step in and start slapping wrists, can I just suggest that any further derailing of this thread takes place in PM? The discussion r.e ICT_GUY's sideline website has gone way out of proportion, and is entirely irrelevent to the OP, this thread and infact this Forum. I'm not a "forum cop" or a Mod, but I personally hate to see threads continually torn apart on EduGeek by such a distinct clash of opinion, especially when there's a race-row about to spark. It really is not hard to just take it to PM. Really. The world doesn't need to see your clash, it's between you two and you two only.

 

EDIT: It appears I was too slow in this post. *sigh*

 

I'm actually rather interested in this thread, because I was offered a web design sideline job for our SSCO department and turned it down, and after reading here what I could have earned, and what they offered, I think I did the right thing. Also, I'm not sure if I'm skilled enough to meet demands. I prefer to hand-code, and I lack sufficient knowledge of Flash, or advanced image creation/editing, etc to make anything worthy of an "Oooh".

[Guest theeldergeek]

 

EDIT: It appears I was too slow in this post. *sigh*

 

Not at all, I'm going to delete all my previous posts in this thread and have done so.

 

I apologise to anyone who was offended or disturbed by my involvement, I felt strongly enough to challenge what was said, and did so.

 

..

Edited February 26, 2010 by theeldergeek
Spelling correction

[torledo]

Technically you should state all additional income on your annual tax return, though you are not liable to pay VAT unless you earn (don't quote me on the figure) roughly £30k a year in any line of business (this would also mean you're entitled to VAT exemption; they net the figure of reclaimed VAT off against the VAT you owe them to reduce your liability). Check your tax code, the numbers signify how much you can earn in a year in your tax band before they start charging you more tax, if you think that the extra cash you'll be getting doing this on top of your wage will push you over that threshold, contact your local tax office (their number will be on your tax slip) to inform them now and they'll tell you the best way to ensure you don't get charged emergency tax

 

IS it not common for those who provide this type of service in addition to a day job, to setup a limited company where the income from such work would go into ?

 

And then your talking about the services of a tax accountant presumably ? Let's hear how the web entreprenuers on here do it....i'm intrigued.

[torledo]

I've not done it myself but having previously worked in finance, I would say unless you start employing staff and paying salaries, then keeping your invoices & receipts and doing some basic book keeping will more than suffice to help you fill out a tax return yourself without paying an accountant. If you get in to the realms of paying VAT (£68,000 as Michael rightly pointed out, a little higher than my £30k estimate!) then I'd pay a professional, miscalculating your VAT payments can land you a hefty fine and even a jail sentence.

 

But if it's just a little sideline business you have going, just remember to keep a paper trail.

 

BTW, I'm no professional so please don't take my comments as gospel! Just my opinion

 

i was thinking more in the way of if there were any tax advantages of setting up a limited company

for this type of work.

[ZeroHour]

This thread has been sanatised

Please stay on topic and post constructive comments.

[mossj]

I find it interesting how most of the web-designers, websites on here... are actually templates of someone else's.

 

Maybe we get lazy when it's our own business on the line?

 

*note this isn't ment to cause offence, I do it myself...

[torledo]

I find it interesting how most of the web-designers, websites on here... are actually templates of someone else's.

 

Maybe we get lazy when it's our own business on the line?

 

*note this isn't ment to cause offence, I do it myself...

 

OR maybe people are lazy most of the time, becuase there are people who'll pay regardless.

[srochford]

I don't think it's being lazy or ripping off the customer.

 

Most users don't want a web site which is built, finished and then that's it - they want to be able to add to it as time goes on (news items, new photos, whatever). Given that, what most users want (even though they may not know it!) is a CMS.

 

There are several good CMS packages out there - does it really make sense to write your own? Who benefits if you do? Not the customer; it'll probably take you longer (ie cost the customer more) than using an off the shelf package. Maybe you benefit as developer - you've learned some new skills but is it worth it? I think someone's already posted something along the lines of "do you expect a plumber to make their own copper pipe?" and it's a reasonable analogy; using a CMS off the shelf is just about taking one of many tools and using it to do the job the customer wants.

[torledo]

I don't think it's being lazy or ripping off the customer.

 

Most users don't want a web site which is built, finished and then that's it - they want to be able to add to it as time goes on (news items, new photos, whatever). Given that, what most users want (even though they may not know it!) is a CMS.

 

There are several good CMS packages out there - does it really make sense to write your own? Who benefits if you do? Not the customer; it'll probably take you longer (ie cost the customer more) than using an off the shelf package. Maybe you benefit as developer - you've learned some new skills but is it worth it? I think someone's already posted something along the lines of "do you expect a plumber to make their own copper pipe?" and it's a reasonable analogy; using a CMS off the shelf is just about taking one of many tools and using it to do the job the customer wants.

 

but i'm not talking about not using a pre-existing CMS for actual content management. I made similar p

oints to yourself about saving the customer money by using open source CMS.

 

It's when the CMS takes over both content and design. IT used to be you seperate designing and theming from content, now with open source CMS the CMS is used for the design element of the site via themes in addition to content updating.

 

I don't think i've heard anyone say that not building your own CMS from scratch is somehow lazy.

Some might argue that using design themes is perhaps a bit lazy, i'd argue more that it's unoriginal....but then there is very little out there that is original. And if the customers happy then alls well.....

[mossj]

I don't think it's being lazy or ripping off the customer.

 

Most users don't want a web site which is built, finished and then that's it - they want to be able to add to it as time goes on (news items, new photos, whatever). Given that, what most users want (even though they may not know it!) is a CMS.

 

There are several good CMS packages out there - does it really make sense to write your own? Who benefits if you do? Not the customer; it'll probably take you longer (ie cost the customer more) than using an off the shelf package. Maybe you benefit as developer - you've learned some new skills but is it worth it? I think someone's already posted something along the lines of "do you expect a plumber to make their own copper pipe?" and it's a reasonable analogy; using a CMS off the shelf is just about taking one of many tools and using it to do the job the customer wants.

 

I wasn't talking about the CMS, I was talking about the template...

[adamchapman]

I know of a few schools locally that pay around £1,000 a year for design & unlimited updates...

 

But I think thats a little expensive when the LA host the site and theres only 1 update a month!

 

If I was doing one privately, I'd be looking at around £500 a year. After all, once the design is done, it's easy money to do a 15 min update every now and then...

[mossj]

Hmm.. sorry to bring this up, but those that do use web templates for customers, do you tell them?

 

Is it in the design contract?

 

Also how do you make a intial agreement with the customer?

[sparkeh]

Hmm.. sorry to bring this up, but those that do use web templates for customers, do you tell them?

Is it in the design contract?

 

Personally I like to be upfront about these kind of things.

Taking the school is question I explained about CMS, templates and the pros and cons of different approaches. When we write an agreement I will put in *exactly* what is going to be delivered and how its being delivered.

Generally I think honesty counts for a lot and getting everything down on paper means that you won't worry about misunderstandings because everyone knows what is going to be delivered (though working in management consultancy for a good few years taught me that you have to be very careful about the wording of such documents as everyone has their own interpretation of what was agreed).