LackRack: Ikea server racks for living room datacenters

[Batman]

I just think that by the time you've spent £30 making a £4.99 table strong enough you're a fool and you have egg on your face

[maniac]

I just think that by the time you've spent £30 making a £4.99 table strong enough you're a fool and you have egg on your face

 

We don't necessarily have to use the IKEA table, it's spawned the idea, but may or maynot form part of the finished product.

 

I for one would actually quite like to see a DIY touch top interactive tablely thing, and I'm volunteering garage space to build it in, and some cash towards the project if we're actually serious about giving this a go. Problem is, if we build one, who would keep the finished product, or would we donate it to Dos_box for edugeek use

 

Mike.

 

EDIT: just checked that link abullett, that's thing's amazing, I want to build one now!

Edited January 26, 2010 by maniac

[INeedAUsername]

my wife used to work in Ikea

[glennda]

Has nobody linked to this yet?

Build Your Own Multitouch Surface Computer

 

Looks a bit complicated for what i was thinking! i was thinking something we could make in 15 mins!

[machin05]

Can i just blindly post a link here without reading through the entire thread?

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s5EvhHy7eQ&feature=player_embedded]YouTube- Low-Cost Multi-touch Whiteboard using the Wiimote[/ame]

 

taken from

 

Johnny Chung Lee - Projects - Wii

 

Maybe some kind of top projection table, using a pico projector? Could work with a white LACK table?!

[dhicks]

Maybe some kind of top projection table, using a pico projector? Could work with a white LACK table?!

 

Pico projectors are a little on the dim side for any kind of realistic use - I have one at home for watching DVDs, and while it's pretty good I do have to turn off pretty much every light in my flat to be able to watch it. However, one of those dinky new LED projectors as shown on the LG stand at BETT would do the job nicely.

 

Top-projection would involve having a projector pointing at just the right place where your table is, and of course leaves a shadow... Unless, of course, you combine this with some of the other stuff on Johnny Chung Lee's website - the auto-calibration system made from a couple of bits of glass fibre and twin-projector projection. In fact, you could replace the lights for a room with LED projectors - maybe four or six sets of twinned projectors, focussed to project on table surfaces. Have the tables themselves auto-calibrate to be interactive surfaces when placed under a projector. You would probably be best having pupils interact with infra-red pens, as with that whiteboard design - seems about the cheapest option and your software only has to deal with a certain number of inputs instead of the whole multi-touch deal.

 

--

David Hicks

[dhicks]

In fact, you could replace the lights for a room with LED projectors - maybe four or six sets of twinned projectors, focussed to project on table surfaces.

 

Hmm. Thinking about this a bit more, I can see where Smart are going with the interactive table idea. A set of 24 classroom laptops costs, say, £10,000. If you can replace laptops with devices that can accommodate 6 children at a time then once the price of those devices drops below £2,500 each you're looking at a good way of providing access to ICT for a class. They won't replace the functionality of a dedicated IT room, of course (if, in three years time, you are still marching your children to The Computer Room to learn How To Use A Computer), but should provide a whole-class teaching solution for other subjects. The main problem would then seem to be content and applications that can actually make use of a multi-touch surface with children clustered around rather than seated individually directly in front of a screen. Obviously interactive tables are a bit too new at the moment, but give it three years or so and I reckon they'll be hitting that £2,500 mark and suddenly becoming the cheapest, most viable whole-class ICT option.

 

Unless, of course... we could manage this now, with screens projected from the ceiling down on to white-surfaced tables. This would have the advantages over laptops of keeping the expensive equipment out of student's hands, power and network connections would be easy to provide, it'd be cheaper overall per class (if six people could use a screen at once) and it would be a collaborative workspace. Laptops can potentially be shared over several classrooms (although this doesn't actually work well in practice) and give each individual pupil their own workspace, which might be what is wanted (a 1280 X 800 projector would provide an individual pupil with an area of 426 x 400 pixels, which is small but comparable to a smartphone or netbook).

 

You would have to figure out how, exactly, each pupil would interact with the display. One idea is infra-red emitting pens, like with that Wiimote above, but with each pen flashing in a particular pattern to indicate which number it is (not sure how well that would actually work). Maybe you could modify standard USB mice to work 6 at a time (although how would you power them - battery, or lose the advantage of needing no power cables?), or maybe create a bluetooth capable device of some kind?

 

You could probably even do 3D for relatively little extra - how much more are 3D-capable projectors?

 

--

David Hicks

[maniac]

Has nobody linked to this yet?

Build Your Own Multitouch Surface Computer

 

As a result of this link which I forwarded to our Director of learning for Enterprise/ICT we might, just might try building one of these as an extra curricular activity for a few of the brighter students - we've got a lot of the parts to do it in school already so it could be an interesting little project.

 

Watch this space, as if we do it I'll start a thread and document it's progress.

 

Mike.

[dhicks]

Hang on, though... Is maybe the wall the best place to project a screen? How about if you got a "gaming" PC capable of supporting 4 screens, with a decent amount of RAM and a decent processor, and installed Linux on it along with a modified window manager that could support multiple mouse/keyboard input (see MPX: The Multi-Pointer X Server). Then have Windows Server running as a VM on the same machine to provide Terminal Services, then plug in 4 bluetooth keyboards and mice and away you go - each user (or, better, group of users) can open applications (logged in properly as themselves) but also slide open windows between displays. A four-screen setup would cost around £5,000.

 

--

David Hicks

[maniac]

Hang on, though... Is maybe the wall the best place to project a screen? How about if you got a "gaming" PC capable of supporting 4 screens, with a decent amount of RAM and a decent processor, and installed Linux on it along with a modified window manager that could support multiple mouse/keyboard input (see MPX: The Multi-Pointer X Server). Then have Windows Server running as a VM on the same machine to provide Terminal Services, then plug in 4 bluetooth keyboards and mice and away you go - each user (or, better, group of users) can open applications (logged in properly as themselves) but also slide open windows between displays. A four-screen setup would cost around £5,000.

 

--

David Hicks

 

Doing a lot of thinking out loud there dhicks

 

I'd actually be very much up for doing some proof of concepts on some of this stuff, as there's some pretty interesting ideas there, and I think there's enough of the necessary componants in existance to build a working device along the lines of some of your thoughts.

[dhicks]

I'd actually be very much up for doing some proof of concepts on some of this stuff, as there's some pretty interesting ideas there, and I think there's enough of the necessary componants in existance to build a working device along the lines of some of your thoughts.

 

Hmm - some further thoughts:

 

Geek In Disguise : Microsoft Pictionaire ? bringing the digital and physical worlds together

 

That looks interesting - an XGA ceiling-mounted projector for the display and a DSLR camera for input. The video clip mentions it was tested by "design professionals", which doesn't bring to mind a typical class of year 8s, but it might work well with some more civilised senior school classes. The shadow cast by a single projector didn't seem to matter, and XGA resolution seemed to work okay for several users. Interestingly, I have a couple of projectors sat in a cupboard that no-one seems to ever use, and we have a DSLR that only works when tethered to a machine...

 

--

David Hicks

[mjs_mjs]

Has nobody linked to this yet?

Build Your Own Multitouch Surface Computer

 

This looks like the best idea yet, plus we can make possibly the biggest table?

 

so we would need;

 

acrylic,

IR LED's,

a sheet of drafting vellum,

silicon+roller,

modified PS3 eye,

floppy disk,

computer,

power supply,

projector,

heat absorbing and Ir absorbing filters,

cabinet/table,

lots of config time,

even more play time.

 

anyone think that this is too much to do?

[fafster]

This looks like the best idea yet, plus we can make possibly the biggest table?

 

so we would need;

 

acrylic,

IR LED's,

a sheet of drafting vellum,

silicon+roller,

modified PS3 eye,

floppy disk,

computer,

power supply,

projector,

heat absorbing and Ir absorbing filters,

cabinet/table,

lots of config time,

even more play time.

 

anyone think that this is too much to do?

 

Plus a mirror as the projector will be mounted near the top of the cabinet.

 

I prefer the idea of placing the vellum underneath the acrylic sheet, as that way the thing would be resistant to spills etc.

[SYNACK]

I posted a whole thread about the opensource multitouch tables about 7 months ago which may provide some extra resources:

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/hardware/18866-open-source-multitouch-surface.html

[maniac]

This looks like the best idea yet, plus we can make possibly the biggest table?

 

so we would need;

 

acrylic,

IR LED's,

a sheet of drafting vellum,

silicon+roller,

modified PS3 eye,

floppy disk,

computer,

power supply,

projector,

heat absorbing and Ir absorbing filters,

cabinet/table,

lots of config time,

even more play time.

 

anyone think that this is too much to do?

 

I've actually ordered pretty much everything I need to make one of these now - I have an old kitchen cabinet I'm going to buther to make a table out of - if it works well I might put it in something better eventually, and I'm going to borrow an old projector from here to test it with - got an old mitsubitshi one in the cupboard that should do the trick.

 

Also the webcam doesn't have to be a playstation eye - I mullered a logitech webcam last night and made it IR sensitive - works a treat, although I've not tested it with the relevant software yet.

 

Thanks for that thread SYNACK, somehow I overlooked that the first time. It was longer ago that 7 months you posted it thou, that thread is 2008

 

Mike.

Edited January 28, 2010 by maniac

[fafster]

I've just ordered a batch of 50 IR LEDs off ebay. Instead of a projector, I plan on building mine around an LCD panel.

 

I'll be popping into the DT department later to get some ideas on how to go about acquiring the plexiglass required, and maybe some ideas on cabinet design. I'm thinking a sloped surface would work best, as the viewing angle on an LCD would hinder a flat one, especially when you're sitting down.

[RinSewand]

Having skimmed through the thread - how will you get the IR webcam to see the top panel if you've mounted an LCD screen under it?

 

RwD

[fafster]

Having skimmed through the thread - how will you get the IR webcam to see the top panel if you've mounted an LCD screen under it?

 

RwD

 

They're transparent.

[fafster]

Just had a thought: A lot of webcams have noticeable input lag. How much of an issue would this be?

[glennda]

Just had a thought: A lot of webcams have noticeable input lag. How much of an issue would this be?

 

not sure, but you will find out soon!!

[p858snake]

Oh god... I've created a monster it seems.....

[RinSewand]

They're transparent.

 

Ahh right - I did not know that - learn something new every day!

[dhicks]

I'm thinking a sloped surface would work best, as the viewing angle on an LCD would hinder a flat one, especially when you're sitting down.

 

That implies a single user, though, or maybe two or three. Surely the idea of one of those over-priced touch-tables is that a whole group of people can cluster around the thing, which you can't do if the tables slopes one way?

 

Ooh, sudden thought - unless you make it swivel?...

 

--

David Hicks

[dhicks]

Just had a thought: A lot of webcams have noticeable input lag.

 

Good point - might be worth spending a bit extra on a webcam to get a decent one. From what I understand, the camera used in the Wiimote is actually remarkably high quality - 1024 X 768 resolution, I think, you could try using one of those.

 

--

David Hicks

[fafster]

That implies a single user, though, or maybe two or three. Surely the idea of one of those over-priced touch-tables is that a whole group of people can cluster around the thing, which you can't do if the tables slopes one way?

 

Ooh, sudden thought - unless you make it swivel?...

 

--

David Hicks

 

I still don't know which way I'll take it. I'm building it in my head, and I'm torn between flat or sloped. I'm just thinking sitting over a flat table wouldn't do wonders for your lower back, especially as you can't tuck your legs underneath, meaning leaning further.

 

Unless the screen is twisted 45 degrees, so that when you use it you can move closer as the corner will be between your legs.

 

Good point - might be worth spending a bit extra on a webcam to get a decent one. From what I understand, the camera used in the Wiimote is actually remarkably high quality - 1024 X 768 resolution, I think, you could try using one of those.

 

--

David Hicks

 

How many points can the wiimote handle simultaneously?

Edited January 29, 2010 by fafster