In new job schools love RM

[Outpost]

Hi,

 

Terrific site, well done (read PC Pro)

 

I have recently started a job based at a secondary school but I am employed soley to look after 10 primaries in the area. 8O

Until just a few weeks ago I have never heard of RM. On my second day I was taken to a RM seminar and shown the wonders of their products. I have also visited a neighbouring? secondary school that has a RM managed network that extends to its primaries, basically the schools are just one WAN.

 

This is the route my secondary school would like to take as they are heavily into RM using CC3.

Although I am based at the secondary my commitment is to the primarys and I would love to here comments or opinions on RM.

Some of the primarys have been stung in the past so I want to tread carefully and do the best for them.

 

My apologies if I should have posted this elsewhere,

I know there are other posts in this forum on RM but they are mostly old and I didn't want this to be missed.

 

Regards GT

[StewartKnight]

It's not generally known, but RM stands for "Rip-off Merchants"; or so I'm led to believe!!!

[mac_shinobi]

lol @ RM standing for Rip Of Merchants. I must admit , never heard that one before

[Outpost]

I must admit some of their systems are pricey from what I've seen but also they can be competitive ie mini macs for £264 ex vat. I gather its the tech support that cripples?

 

GT

[MkII]

The gear is well over priced for what it is, and the support is horrendous too. I'm sure you'll get some interesting replies. If your pot is filled with gold, and you like being charged double what the competition charges, and can't manage to achieve the same results alone, I'd say go for it!

[tarquel]

In short, I dont think there are many who would recommend RM-based networks and systems.

 

I've never had the "priviledge" of using a RM network, have only used RM desktop's of the 486 variety many years ago.

 

Havent touched them with a barge pole since. No real reason except that i could get better pricing that RM gear and no one really praised them in recent years.

 

Thats my two cents as they say.

 

Regards

Nath

[kingswood]

If it's a managed solution you are thinking of, try RMs rivals CSE:

 

http://www.cse-net.co.uk/

 

Other than that I agree with the comments already given- RM are perhaps not the best people to go to for help. I would recommend *at least* a chat with CSE and see what they say.

 

With a project this size I think you could use the help!

 

Take care- let us know how it pans out for you...

 

Paul :-)

[russdev]

right ok here is my view of rm (as a user was installed and being installed when i started)

 

RM 2.4 rubbish.... great idea but they changed it too much from standard way and that throw many problems up.

 

CC3 - Now this is lot better they kept standard things and use there tools to add on to it...

 

I have made the cc3 do what i want to do and not other way around..

 

Support - lot better than use to be but helps if you have a good sales team who can push on your behalf..

 

Be prepared to make waves and fight if you want it to do something tell that..

 

They are now more willing to go from standard way as long as use understand support not official i.e if blows up dont expect them to come out and fix it but they will help you often anyway...

 

The support is better now that profiles has been added so that you can set info about yourself so that they know your level of tech ability.

 

When they talk to you.. (so dont get the click on start button the one with start on it they just say goto system properties etc).

 

Over price yes can be expensive but this is my suggestion first up order in bulk when ordering computers and at end of day can order computers eslewhere and get cc3 licenses from rm.

 

Push them hard if you have 7000 to spend say you have only 7000 to spend you need this amount what can you do... You will be amazed how much they will come down our first quotes and end quotes ussaly have very different prices..

 

right in all they have come a long way and but can improve but you have to push them hard and you become a most hated person in rm at times.

 

I get on alright with sales team but there are departments that run away at my name (qca...)..

 

I have always said if they do good then i praise them if they muck up cause a problem then i will say that they have...

 

I have heard primary sales is worst than secondry sales and if you are not getting sales service then write to them and say unless a meeeting is arranged with sales rep you are pulling away from rm..

 

But first point of call is to arrange meeeting with sales rep at the school and if need be take them on tour of the schools you work for and get them to work for you not other way around...

 

sorry for long post but after being in rm school now for nearly two years i know how to handle them..

 

 

Russ

 

p.s

 

dont use online support i.e raise a call online as it is dire always phone and then use online support to communicate with them.

[Ric_]

From my experience of RM, I wouldn't touch them again - I don't know of anybody in Lancashire that would!

 

Your project does seem over-engineered and would be a nightmare to implement - particularly after seeing the state of some primary schools.

 

I do, however, know of high schools that allow primaries in the area to use their Citrix servers (something I myuself might be interested in doing). To me, this seems a lot easier from a logistical viewpoint and the administration overheads of a WAN would be minimal.

[russdev]

i think problem is rm today has chnaged lot in past 12 months and they now are stuck with a rep and it is going to take a lot to chanages peoples views...

 

Also there managed projects like qca need lot of work but be prepared to put work in in getting an rm network how you want it...

 

 

Russ

[mrtechsystems]

Hello Guys nice to be back from the hols

 

With reference to the RM

 

Would not touch them rubbish support over priced as ppl mentioned

 

 

Lee

 

P.S Hope your job goes well

[Outpost]

Fantasic feedback, thanks everyone!!

 

I have seen a RM managed network in action and was quite impressed by it and it still seems to be ticking over quite well but I do have my reservations.

 

The cost which I'm told would be mega high and the primarys just can't afford that luxury. Luxury I feel is a good word for the whole idea, yea its great but is it really that necessary, I don't feel it is.

Then of course you are tied to RM and its way of doing things, whose to say a better cheaper solution isn't round the corner.

 

It could be out of my hands, the powers at be may try and push it through but I think I have gained the trust of the primarys and feel sure they would listen to my thoughts and act on them.

 

I'll stay on the fence for now and watch closely.

 

Thanks again everyone

[dagza]

Hello

 

First of all if you mention RM in a meeting with ppl who know what they are talking about you will, at the very least, get a snigger

 

Secondly, as a tax payer with a young kid I would very much like to see the justification for a primary school to spen such money on a system when you can get all you need from a 486.

 

More importanly: Outpost. WHERE IS THE LINKE FOR THE CHEAP MAC MINI'S ??????

 

Darren

[GrumbleDook]

Good to see you have your priorities right, Darren

 

:-)

[Ric_]

@dagza: Mac sell to education direct at ridiculously cheap prices - just check the Apple website (don't go giving money to RM as third party for placing the order with Apple for you)

 

@outpost: You should suggest that a couple of independant consultancy (yuk) firms quote for a similar project. You will have to do something to get your 3 quotes as these are required for a project with such a large spend. I'm sure you will be able to find people that are capable of implementing a WAN using Active Directory (which is all it is after all) - there's people on here with solutions from Fujitsu for instance.

 

The reason that 'the powers that be' like this solution so much is that they have seen it in action and I dare say that they have not seen anything else of an equivalent nature so they should really look around.

 

Incidentally, how does CLEO feel about such a proposal? I know that you Cumbrian-types are a lot more free to do your own thing than us mere mortals in Lancashire but surely they would have rules about connecting 11 schools together into a WAN within a WAN?

[Outpost]

Ric

 

CLEO absolutely hate it!!

But they have done it for a nearby secondary school, so what goes for one must go for all?

It took the school and RM some years I believe to get the go ahead with constant badgering, but credit to them its now up and running and from what I've seen works really well.

 

'The reason that 'the powers that be' like this solution so much is that they have seen it in action and I dare say that they have not seen anything else of an equivalent nature so they should really look around.'

 

I think you're absolutely right on this and I will look around, thanks to this board I have now other options to look at.

[Dos_Box]

@Outpost.

 

Thanks for joining. As for RM you may wish to consider the value for money aspect that using RM entails. How much functionality does it give you that is not actually free M$ server apps with a pretty interface. The reason you won't see much RM in Lancashire and Cumbria is that we realised a long time ago that it is cheaper to buy other products as and when you need them and a decent techy does not need to use their products. RM are desperate to make sales in the NW and I am not suprised that they are treating you very nicely, just be careful in the future when you relaise that your nice system now will cost the earth to upgrade in several years time when you find you are so locked into RM products that you cannot leave. RM is almost proprietory and you WILL have to pay a price later on.

[russdev]

I think to move away from rm is not as bad asd people think the licenses you have already i.e client access, virutal cd etc..

 

The main cost is removing rm stuff and implmeneting you own and you would do that at same time as installing a new server... and also time to rebuild stations etc..

 

Russ

[Alex]

RM systems are designed for teachers whose experience amounts to 'I touched a computer once' to administer.

 

A decent sysadmin can recreate anything they do at a fraction of the cost.

[woody]

My only real dealings with RM in the past was at my last school where the head was convinced by RM that their software called Successmaker would provide an e-learning system which was intellegent ie. it would quickly assess a pupil's ability and react accordingly and it would give teachers a full report on individual progress. It did all this but it wasn't the most stable system and it cost $$$$$$$$. Oround £20k initially with an anuual subscription cost as well. Personally, I don't think it was worth it, although it kept the kids happy and the teachers didn't have to make any lesson plans.

 

BTW, if you have ordered stuff from Tesco vouchers, then you have ordered that stuf from RM. So RM are probably ripping off Tesco and schools as well in their ability to provide good value for vouchers.

[russdev]

here we go tescos biggist rip of scheme

 

"come collect vouchers for your school) only takes 900000000 vouchers for a mouse"

 

new sports scheme have to spend 900 quid or something for badmington racket..

 

end of rant

 

russ

[Ric_]

@mark_wood: Don't even start me going on Sucky-sess-maker. Had that in my old job and it was the most unstable thing in the world and it did indeed cost huge sums of money for very little. Alas, the teachers bought into the idea and decided that they couldn't cope without it - they wouldn't even contemplate trying a different system!

[free4440273]

RM? you really want to know? charlatans; incompetents [writ large]; inexcusable; pathetic; useless; outdated; over-priced [wayyy over priced]; pure marketing; oh, but all their 'engineers' [i bite my lip when i use such a title] always wear a tie on their visits - charming!

[another company who all of this can apply to is NS Optimum - they are supposedly in 'competition' with RM, but i actually think they would get on fabulously with each other].

[dthebike]

We put in an RM CC3 network into our secondary a year ago. Various options were tendered (CSE,Viglen, bespoke using Class Server etc) and RM were the CHEAPEST with the most functionality. Cheapest by a significant margin! Telephone support has been excellent - e-mail support is awful (the choice is yours). Hardware prices are higher than availabe elsewhere, but you can't always get similar elsewhere (RM One PC has cables clamped internally with a screwed down cover so students cannot pull cables out of the back - that's worth something to me in support time savings).

Sure, given time and effort you can do the same manually, but I want to get on embedding ICT in the school and not just making sure the little darlings don't trash the network and fixing GPOs...

RM were pretty awful from what I hear, but they have listened to customers and CC3 has some great features and the basic system costs are not that great - you don't need to buy their PCs.

[Midget]

................. you joined 1month after the last post in this thread and then it took you 16months to think up a reply in your first post? That's just confusing.