Hightower Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) We're looking at getting a new server, that will probably run Windows 2003. What do people think of this spec: The server will be tasked with running 3 x VM's - Moodle, Zimbra, and Insight from Tasc. Do people think this will do the job? Is it overkill? Do we need a better spec? Any help is greatly appreciated! Base PowerEdge T410 Tower Chassis for Up to 6x 3.5" Cabled HDDs with Quad-Pack LED Diagnostics Processor Intel® Xeon® E5502, 1.86Ghz, 4M Cache, 4.86 GT/s QPI, 800MHz Max Memory Additional Processor Intel® Xeon® E5502, 1.86GHz, 4M Cache, 4.86 GT/s QPI, 800MHz Max Memory Memory 16GB Memory for 2 CPUs, DDR3, 1066MHz (4x4GB Dual Ranked RDIMMs) Support Services 3Yr ProSupport for IT and 4hr Mission Critical Raid Connectivity C6 Cabled - RAID 6 with PERC 6/i, 4-6 SAS/SATA Cabled HDDs 1st Hard Drive - Multiquantity 6 x 146GB, SAS, 3.5-inch, 15K RPM Hard Drive (Cabled) Power Supply Redundant Power Supply (2 PSU) 580W http://i.dell.com/images/global/configurator/general/spacer.gif ADDITIONAL HARDWARE OPTIONShttp://i.dell.com/images/global/configurator/general/linebr.gifhttp://i.dell.com/images/global/configurator/general/spacer.gifNetwork Cards Intel® PRO 1000PT Single Port Server Adapter, Gigabit NIC, Cu, PCIe x4 Optical Devices 16X DVD-ROM Drive SATA with SATA Cable Edited October 15, 2009 by Hightower
webman Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) The only problem I can see is that it will be running Windows 2003. Why not run something bare-metal such as VMWare ESXi or Citrix Xen? Less cost, smaller attack surface, uses less resources (leaves more for the VMs), and requires less maintenance. I would upgrade the disk capacity now and RAID it - you never know when you will need more, and redundancy is a good thing. Edited October 15, 2009 by webman Added 'less cost' argument
sparkeh Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Just to echo webman, if you are going down the route of running VMs then use a VM platform rather than running them in 2003. I also like to run redundant disks to jump in in case of failure.
Hightower Posted October 15, 2009 Author Posted October 15, 2009 The only problem I can see is that it will be running Windows 2003. Why not run something bare-metal such as VMWare ESXi or Citrix Xen? Less cost, smaller attack surface, uses less resources (leaves more for the VMs), and requires less maintenance. I would upgrade the disk capacity now and RAID it - you never know when you will need more, and redundancy is a good thing. My bad - server has 6 x HDD's shown which are RAID 6. I'll have a look into ESXi as all it will be doing is running other VM's - how easy is it to backup though using ESXi?
webman Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 My bad - server has 6 x HDD's shown which are RAID 6. I'll have a look into ESXi as all it will be doing is running other VM's - how easy is it to backup though using ESXi? Ahh okay, sorry - that's good. I thought it just had the physical "space" to hold 6 HDDs There are community backup scripts for ESXi (have a look on the VMWare forums) or have a look at commercial solutions like VMWare ESX Backup. Or just regular backup methods on each server OS.
Hightower Posted October 15, 2009 Author Posted October 15, 2009 So overall (setting aside OS for now) does the spec look good enough to host 3 VM's, serving Moodle, Zimbra, and Insight to 700 users? I figured around 4gb RAM for Moodle and 4gb RAM for Zimbra would suffice, leaving whatever is left for the Insight stuff? I chose 15k HDD's for speed. Didn't know whether processors would be powerful enough?
webman Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Look like similar processors to what we have in ours. Disks should be fine. I'm not familiar with or ever heard of Insight, but you can easily allocate 4GB of RAM to each VM to begin with and then expand from there if you need to. How many users will Zimbra be running for? On our set up it uses about 5GB in memory - approximately 1000 accounts and about 200 or so concurrent connections using the advanced web client during the day. IIRC, if you change the amount of RAM allocated to Zimbra, you have to tell Zimbra the amount of new RAM it has (so that it can adjust it's internal allocation sizes etc) - this is in the Zimbra forums and/or wiki somewhere.
Hightower Posted October 15, 2009 Author Posted October 15, 2009 Look like similar processors to what we have in ours. Disks should be fine. I'm not familiar with or ever heard of Insight, but you can easily allocate 4GB of RAM to each VM to begin with and then expand from there if you need to. How many users will Zimbra be running for? On our set up it uses about 5GB in memory - approximately 1000 accounts and about 200 or so concurrent connections using the advanced web client during the day. IIRC, if you change the amount of RAM allocated to Zimbra, you have to tell Zimbra the amount of new RAM it has (so that it can adjust it's internal allocation sizes etc) - this is in the Zimbra forums and/or wiki somewhere. At the minute Zimbra is set to run with about 200 accounts, with maybe 50 concurrent connections (if that). It's running nicely with 1GB on a VM at the minute, but we are looking at the possibility of running with it completely (around 640 kids and 100 staff). Insight is some software that gives parents access to their kids SIMS information (i.e. attendance, reports, assessments etc). They say a 4GB VM should be more than enough.
Hightower Posted October 15, 2009 Author Posted October 15, 2009 Changing the subject slightly now webman, do you use VSXi? Do you know if it can be installed on a HP Tower workstation? I want to have a look at ESXi but don't have a spare server - the only thing I have lying around is a HP MicroTower with 1GB RAM.
webman Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Yes we currently have a single ESXi server but will soon be making that two - all Dell PE 2950s For testing purposes, 1GB of RAM should be OK; but are the processors up to scratch? They really need to support virtualisation - e.g. Xeons. I forget which AMD chip does virtualisation...
Hightower Posted October 15, 2009 Author Posted October 15, 2009 I'm not worried about the speed of the thing to test - just wanted to have a look around it etc. Will try downloading the one for HP machines to see if that one works, as the normal ISO threw an error during installation.
DMcCoy Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 You may find ESXi will not install properly with only 1GB RAM
localzuk Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 You won't get it working without CPU based virtualisation support. The list of support is here: VMware Compatibility Guide - Search the VMware Compatibility Guide
teejay Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 The original spec is fine apart from a lack of network ports, you really want at least 4 nic ports. I would slap in a 4 port nic.
teejay Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Also, if going down the Esxi route, make sure you download the version optimised for Dell servers.
Hightower Posted October 15, 2009 Author Posted October 15, 2009 Hmmm, so how do I try this without having to go buy a brand new server?!
Guest Guest Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) Hmmm, so how do I try this without having to go buy a brand new server?! You dont need virtualisation on your CPU for running linux guests, but you do for windows. // Sorry, i think im wrong there, im not sure esxi or xen will install without it. Maybe im wrong, dunno Heres the list of VI enabled intels [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_virtualization[/ame] Edited October 15, 2009 by Guest
localzuk Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 You dont need virtualisation on your CPU for running linux guests, but you do for windows. // Sorry, i think im wrong there, im not sure esxi or xen will install without it. Maybe im wrong, dunno No, ESXi won't install without it.
DMcCoy Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Could you not just use ESXi 3.5? ESX 3.5 certainly didn't need VT extensions to run, you would be restricted to 32 bit guests, but Windows and Linux will both be fine.
Hightower Posted October 15, 2009 Author Posted October 15, 2009 It is 3.5 that I downloaded and tried to run....
DMcCoy Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 You dont need virtualisation on your CPU for running linux guests, but you do for windows. // Sorry, i think im wrong there, im not sure esxi or xen will install without it. Maybe im wrong, dunno Heres the list of VI enabled intels x86 virtualization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia VT was for Windows guests with Xen, HyperV, Virtual Iron etc. VMware before v4 had no specific requirements for it, only if you wanted guests that were 64 bit.
DMcCoy Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 It is 3.5 that I downloaded and tried to run.... The hardware will still need to be compatible. The key things are network and storage. There is only limited support for a couple of IDE controllers with ESXi3. Ultimate VMWare ESX Whitebox gives some idea as to what can be made to work. The other option would be to get hold of a ML115/ML110 G5 if you can (ML115 is the one I prefer). All you need to get ESXi going with that is a 4GB usb stick and an extra GB of RAM.
Hightower Posted October 15, 2009 Author Posted October 15, 2009 Might be nice to see yours in action webman....
webman Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Just pop over - door is always open (10am-4:30pm - after the morning rush ) 1
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