Geoff Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Why? The Linux servers here work fine. No problems to post about.
Diello Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 OK... Let's start a thread about the best implements to beat Tux with... I'll start: claw hammer. Being serious for a sec lol - I don't think Linux is that widely used in schools really is it? Unless you're one of the... "interesting" people running http://www.karoshi.org.uk/ Macs are more common in schools, and look at the usage that forum is getting. It's still early days.
Geoff Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Well, I think you'll be suprised. There's a lot of 'Network Appliances' running Linux. For example here at St Michaels Primary (where I am today) we have: 2x Epson Laser printers (Linux OS inside them + Samba + other bits) 1x Unbranded 100mbit switch running Linux 1x Cleo 'cache box' running Linux + Squid. 4x Buffalo Wireless Access points which also run Linux. So thats eight already, and this is in a local primary school with about 40 machines tops... Granted I don't actually have any day to day 'admininstration' to do on these devices (Thats a good thing!) and they aren't what you'd traditionally call a 'Linux system' however they are there doing the job asked of them. Look harder.
ChrisH Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Our internet filter is Linux based but is a dedicated distro with easy to use setup, so I dont have to be no expert in Linux to use it . We will be getting another server though that will have linux on it for various tasks. These will include anti spam/virus for our Exchange box and I would like to look at things like Nagios as well for network monitoring and such. I just have to get a little more clued up first which I am slowly but surely.
Geoff Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 These will include anti spam/virus for our Exchange box and I would like to look at things like Nagios as well for network monitoring and such. Your quite welcome to come and look at the setup at Carr Hill if you like Chris.
Traitor Posted June 16, 2005 Author Posted June 16, 2005 I don't think Linux is that widely used in schools really is it? Unless you're one of the... "interesting" people running http://www.karoshi.org.uk/ "interesting" people is that in the way Sir Humphey means in Yes Minister? Yeah I wonder why it isn't so widely spread in cash strapped schools?
ChrisH Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Cash strapped is the reason I started to use Linux solutions. The proxy solution alone would probably cost £2000 from a commercial solution. @ Geoff I may just do that but will see how we go on first as were not likely to have the hardware till nearly christmas the way things are going. I may have a play using VMware or Colinux before then though.....
MkII Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Yeah I wonder why it isn't so widely spread in cash strapped schools? Coz it's not a common skill to be able to administer it?? We have a linux webserver [shared between all schools], an email/intranet server built by the local authority. The central cacheing server is another.
Geoff Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 were not likely to have the hardware till nearly christmas the way things are going. You can use any old crud thats lying around then transfer the system to the new hardware when you get it. Coz it's not a common skill to be able to administer it It is a common skill, UNIX admins have been around for decades. However I expect its not a skill schools ask for when they advertise for job vancancies.
ChrisH Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 All the crud we have is sat on the users desktops Ive been recyling everything at the mo just to replace the 5 PCs that are out of action due to ancient motherboards.
sjones Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Hi guys, The problem with Linux is that is seems like a good solution until you ask more of it. IMHO Linux is best at basic but essential work such as ip level firewalls and the like, external facing web server etc Microsoft rules the softer inside of your network. The authentication systems and extensibility beat linux hands down. Right tool for the right job basically. To aid Linux administration I started creating some Firewall admin systems that will run on your management stations. http://www.sabien.uklinux.net/firewall/ I stopped due to time contraints. Steve
Diello Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 I don't think Linux is that widely used in schools really is it? Unless you're one of the... "interesting" people running http://www.karoshi.org.uk/ "interesting" people is that in the way Sir Humphey means in Yes Minister? Yeah I wonder why it isn't so widely spread in cash strapped schools? Pretty much - Good old Humph... Cash strapped? Basically because to TCO doesn't balence - yes, it's cheaper from an inital purchase PoV, but your support costs are higher, both financially (having to pay people more to support it), and it terms of stress. So M$ may be more expensive in the short term, but over the long term, it'll work out more costly. IMHO anyway. Oh - and fair point Geoff on integrated Linux - from that PoV i guess we have some - though we never "see" it.
Geoff Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Linux is best at basic but essential work such as ip level firewalls and the like, external facing web server Whats your definition of complex then? Have you ever seen Linux machine a apache vhosting setup or a layer 2 bridging firewall? Just because Linux is usually used cookie cutter fashion for generic tasks doesn't mean it can't do anything else. The authentication systems and extensibility beat linux hands down. What? Do you mean like LDAP, Kerberos, and Directory Services?
Dos_Box Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Almost every school in Lancashire has a Linux server. Its called a Cachepilot. For those not in Lancashire, we had a project and placed one of these into every primary school and any secondarys that wanted one. For free. Cos' we're great.
sjones Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 I run AD, Linux, Apache, Bind, MS DNS, IIS 4, 5, 6 my team supports a site supporting IE, Mozzila, firefox, enterprise firewalls, linux iptables firewalls protecting 100+ networks. I have implemented linux as an intranet server, samba server, Proxy server, filter server, and external web server vhosting 80+ web sites (now moved to IIS6). I have implemented MS Proxy2, wingate and ISA 2000 amonst other things so I have some experience in these fields. Extensibility - from a point of view of developement Microsoft APIs and their documentation are fantastic. The range of products available is immense. Try to implement Linux to replace AD. Go on... give it a go. Your brain will be bleeding with effort before you can get basic functionality. I know I have been there MS AD has out of the box integration for ALL its server products. ISA Server and IIS both support integrated authentication for its proxy and web users on an intranet for IE users for example. Linux can support these protocols but its a far cry from what MS can do and again effort to reward ratios are way tipped towards M$. If Linux is ever going to start competing with M$ it needs to 1. Implement some decent management tools 2. Standardise its goddam config files back from the 1970's to be XML (which will make point 1 soooo much easier) 3. Integrate its products better. 4. Get some decent backup support (I dont include NetBackup) Cachepilot? Oh god sounds like a relative of Netpilot. The noise of the netpilot starting up (beep, beep bip beep, beep bip beep, beep bip) still haunts my dreams. Ack gad - cack.
Geoff Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Try to implement Linux to replace AD. Thats the wrong approach. Linux isn't Windows and you shouldn't attempt to force it to be. You will fail. MS AD has out of the box integration for ALL its server products. ISA Server and IIS both support integrated authentication for its proxy and web users on an intranet for IE users for example. Woe betide the man who attempts to intergrate something non-MS. They don't exactly make it easy do they. Which neatly leads us to... Linux can support these protocols but its a far cry from what MS can do and again effort to reward ratios are way tipped towards M$. Took about an hour at Carr Hill. Implement some decent management tools What about Webmin? Plus I've always found remote command line access more than adaquete for any management task. Standardise its goddam config files back from the 1970's to be XML At least I can hand edit flat text files. I can't think of a good reason how this change would be positive. Am I missing something? (which will make point 1 soooo much easier) Non-sequitar. Integrate its products better. Well thats down to the distro maintainer. If you don't like how your current one is doing it then try someone else. If your still not happy, do it yourself. Get some decent backup support (I dont include NetBackup) I use Partimage personally. Its basically Ghost for Linux.
Ric_ Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Almost every school in Lancashire has a Linux server. Its called a Cachepilot. For those not in Lancashire, we had a project and placed one of these into every primary school and any secondarys that wanted one. For free. Cos' we're great. It's just a lot of secondary schools route 'round it 'cos the GUI is badly designed and there is a distinct slowing in Internet connectivity (something you don't want from a web cache!!!) I like Linux though - I admit my skills are relatively limited but simple administration I can do. I have a plan to 'recycle' a few machines into Linux servers after I roll out my thin client solution - I've noticed several nice looking SFF toshiba machines that could be put in a big stack (just need to replace them first).
Ric_ Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 As we can see, people can be quite opinionated about Linux and, as with any other OS, there are pros and cons. I'm going to lock the forum and can we keep the rants/debates/arguments to a minimum in future?!?
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