Technicians pay

[Corky]

Why are Jobs posted with such inconsistant Salaries? Seen some lately where Pay varies from £12,000 to £26,000 for basically the same Job. I have also noticed that some schools actually offer the cleaners higher pay per hour than the IT technician they are advertising for.

 

Rant over for the day

 

[witch]

Because, unlike teachers, we are subject to the so-called 'market forces' - which means they will pay as little as they can.

What always gets me is that schools half a mile apart can have widely differing payscales for what is the same job

[tech_guy]

And that's what the pay and conditions reviews are about isn't it - to supposedly level the playing field - but it's all a load of sheep's testicles because it's by each county not by the country as a whole.

[adhutton]

I recently saw a 'Trainee Technician' job advertised which included Microsoft (MCSA/MCSE) training as part of the job on a better salary!

 

Needless to say, not in the Education sector.

 

Andrew

[ricki]

Hi

 

Remember some counties have not done the regrade yet.

 

Richard

[Guest Guest]

And that's what the pay and conditions reviews are about isn't it - to supposedly level the playing field - but it's all a load of sheep's testicles because it's by each county not by the country as a whole.

 

No actually its per school, or atleast it is in Stockton council

[tech_guy]

I recently saw a 'Trainee Technician' job advertised which included Microsoft (MCSA/MCSE) training as part of the job on a better salary!

 

Needless to say, not in the Education sector.

 

Andrew

 

Now I'm even more depressed.

[tech_guy]

No actually its per school, or atleast it is in Stockton council

 

No, here in Warwickshire it's across the whole county so all the techs, all the senior techs, nm's, etc should get the same pay as each other. It's laughable really.

[Guest Guest]

No, here in Warwickshire it's across the whole county so all the techs, all the senior techs, nm's, etc should get the same pay as each other. It's laughable really.

 

Are you sure about that? Have you asked every tech what his pay is?

I know that is how it was supposed to be but in reality (atleast here) it was used as nothing more than an excuse to cap wages. I dont know anyone who is on the same wages for doing the same job be it NM or techy.

 

For example our last NM was on £18K, the school down the road pays £21k, our current NM is on abit more than that, while the school in the town i live in pays around £17k. All within the same authority, and all after the rescaling.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Guest

[tech_guy]

Are you sure about that? Have you asked every tech what his pay is?

I know that is how it was supposed to be but in reality (atleast here) it was used as nothing more than an excuse to cap wages. I dont know anyone who is on the same wages for doing the same job be it NM or techy.

 

For example our last NM was on £18K, the school down the road pays £21k, our current NM is on abit more than that, while the school in the town i live in pays around £17k. All within the same authority, and all after the rescaling.

 

Well, we're undergoing phase 2 at the moment and all the propaganda we've been given states that people doing the same jobs with the same responsibilities will be paid the same, although we all know that is impossible - no two jobs are ever the same, especially in IT in schools.

 

My concern is that it's going to be used as a cost cutting exercise.

 

Everyone has to match their job against a job descriptor provided by the council, and where no job descriptor exists (as is the case for most of the IT roles), then each individual has to fill in a JEQ (job evaluation questionnaire) - all nearly 30 pages of it - so that your pay can be worked out.

 

 

I'm actually considering going back in to industry as I've just about had enough.

[localzuk]

No, here in Warwickshire it's across the whole county so all the techs, all the senior techs, nm's, etc should get the same pay as each other. It's laughable really.

 

The school can still override that - it is up to the head. The idea of job evaluations like this is to provide a level playing field across an LEA, yes, but not by reducing people's wages by not taking people's responsibilities into account.

[wesleyw]

It's also dependant on the roles that, that person has to do the regrade will take this into account so two NMs could be on completely different wages even though their basic roels are the same depends on what other roles they have in the school.

 

Wes

[alextreadwell]

There was a job advertised at a school a near me doing exactly the same thing Im doing now on £3000 more than I'm on so I applied. Got an interview and everything went well they asked me to hang around for a while while they disscussed the interviews, everyone else was sent home so I thought I had the job, one of the interveiwers came out ten minutes later and told me they had decided to readvertise and that they felt I was over qualified, that I would be moving on with in the next 5 years or quicker to a network managers job. So I didn't end up getting the job with this in mind I spoke to HR abouth this fact and asked how this would effect me though pay and (de)gradeing the answer was well it waas up to you school to allocate you to a job profile and that the person working at the other school would be loosing pay to come down to the level that I am at now. I have spoken to other school and found out this is not the case so get ready for the appeals process when ever that arrives as it was due on the 22nd but havn't heard anything yet

 

It is Ideally by council but depends on the delgate at your school putting your job against the right job profile in my case it was the bursar. what does they know about the job I do I don't even work at the same site as them

[hillskill]

I have found that a lot of it depends on how ICT savy and interested the head and SMT are.

 

Many schools who really value there ICT staff are willing to pay more to attract the right candidate where as some will offer the same money as what the cleaners are on!!

[russdev]

This is why work of the School Support Staff Negotiating Body is so important as for first time we will have a national level playing field. The important part is extra T & C like getting. mandatory performance reviews for example.

 

It will certainly make the whole thing a different ball game once their work comes online.

 

Also for info EduGeek.net is currently working hard to make sure that we can feed into unions our views so that your views are taken forward to SSNB so watch this space.

 

Russ

[somabc]

Why are Jobs posted with such inconsistant Salaries? Seen some lately where Pay varies from £12,000 to £26,000 for basically the same Job. I have also noticed that some schools actually offer the cleaners higher pay per hour than the IT technician they are advertising for.

 

Rant over for the day

 

 

Stop complaining about pay! If you do not want to work for £12k then do not do so! Companies that pay peanuts will suffer for it through high turnover and/or poorly trained staff so it should even out.

[localzuk]

Stop complaining about pay! If you do not want to work for £12k then do not do so! Companies that pay peanuts will suffer for it through high turnover and/or poorly trained staff so it should even out.

 

Huh? You do realise that we are in a recession? And that the number of jobs going is limited? It is inexcusable for schools to try and screw their staff out of pay in the way being described!

[Guest Guest]

Well, we're undergoing phase 2 at the moment and all the propaganda we've been given states that people doing the same jobs with the same responsibilities will be paid the same, although we all know that is impossible - no two jobs are ever the same, especially in IT in schools.

 

My concern is that it's going to be used as a cost cutting exercise.

 

Everyone has to match their job against a job descriptor provided by the council, and where no job descriptor exists (as is the case for most of the IT roles), then each individual has to fill in a JEQ (job evaluation questionnaire) - all nearly 30 pages of it - so that your pay can be worked out.

 

 

Well if we are anything to go by its not good news...

 

 

Advice i would give is;

Insist on every role you perfom being noted down on your questionaire. I was foolish enough to trust the HT when he said you dont put things down that arnt part of your main roles. So now im in a possition of being payed for being a toner monkey, but in reality i have implimented and was responsible for every change/stratergy/etc over the past 4 years, from taking us from Server2000 with no automation to a fully automated 2003 system, to publishing a website and maintaining digital signage systems...

 

The council dont decide what your wages will be, the HT does. You will be told all sorts of lies to the contary but in the end it comes down to this. If the HT wants to pay you what you are worth he can. If you dont fit nicely into an appropriate scale all he need do is "invent" a role and title for you, with responsibilities which pays that scale.

 

If you are a volentary aided school you may get in a funny situation where you are told you work for the school when it suits them best, but at other times be told you work for the council when it suits them better that way... I dont know the correct answer to that but i do know it can be used as a great way to screw you over so watch out.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Guest

[maniac]

One reason I came to work in an Academy, they offer a higher salery than doing the equivalent job working for a KCC school and have much more freedom to move on that. Their pay scales also differ to that of the county and are generally higher.

 

Mike

[somabc]

Huh? You do realise that we are in a recession? And that the number of jobs going is limited? It is inexcusable for schools to try and screw their staff out of pay in the way being described!

 

What do you suggest then? Strike? The school has a statutory duty to minimise its costs, this includes staffing. The no of jobs is always limited. If there were unlimited jobs your pay would be zero. Now in a market where there are jobs at £12k and jobs at £30k this strikes me as a great opportunity to increase your salary! Either you move jobs to one that is well paid or you use that as a bargaining chip to get a payrise. Would you rather have national payscales eg. Tech £18k, NM £24k and you could never ever earn more than that?

[mossj]

No, here in Warwickshire it's across the whole county so all the techs, all the senior techs, nm's, etc should get the same pay as each other. It's laughable really.

 

Out of interest whats your techy on? I'm in warwickshire and I think it works out at about 14.5K pro rata. I've also never heard about any standardisation/questionaires about pay...

 

Have been thinking about applying for a regrade of my role.... As they've given me a specialist title in some official documents yet my contract has me down as a tonermonkey.

[cookie_monster]

@ somabc - Using the recession excuse to try to cut staff salaries is universally seen as very poor practice, you can cut staff numbers to save money but to start trying to tell your staff you think they're suddenly not worth the money you pay them is poor.

[teejay]

There will still be varying rates of pay for ICT Technicians and Network Managers throughout a county and even within a school, as after review there are still different job descriptions depending on the responsibilities and size of school.

 

Schools have a responsibility for 'best value', which does not always mean employing the cheapest person they can get. A balance has to be met between the cost of employment and the ability to do the job, but unfortunately a lot of schools/LEA's are taking the view that in the current market they can get away with paying the lowest rate due to the current demand for IT jobs. You also have the medium term prospect of the current economic situation causing school/LEA budgets to be cut, which I'm sure most HT's are taking account of now.

[Corky]

Stop complaining about pay! If you do not want to work for £12k then do not do so! Companies that pay peanuts will suffer for it through high turnover and/or poorly trained staff so it should even out.

 

I'm not Complaining, I wouldnt work for £12,000 in IT......

Edited June 25, 2009 by Corky

[somabc]

@ somabc - Using the recession excuse to try to cut staff salaries is universally seen as very poor practice, you can cut staff numbers to save money but to start trying to tell your staff you think they're suddenly not worth the money you pay them is poor.

 

I never said that the recession should be used as an excuse to cut salaries, only that the government has a duty to minimise its costs to taxpayers.

 

I saw a good comment about working in IT here

 

Getting a "job", in general, means trading time for money. But it's not a lot of money; you are working to make someone else rich. For every dollar that person gives you, they lose a dollar.

 

So Adam Smith's invisible hand will work to compress wages unless you can do something about it.

 

Programmers have "done something about it", in general, by generally requiring some sort of 4-year degree to get into the business. Doctors and Lawyers, by requiring a very expensive grad degree, internship, and board exam, have done the most about it. So those fields have barriers to entry and tend to pay better - aside from the assistant prosecutor in a small county seat; but then the programming gigs there aren't great either.

 

So you aren't going to get rich as a programmer. In fact, if you want to be paid well, you'll move to NYC or Chicago or Palo Alto, but cost of living will getcha and you still won't get rich.

 

The closest thing to rich as a programmer is contracting, which involves more personal /risk/, or starting your own business.

 

Of course, the basic "day job" tradeoff is very little risk in trade of a stipend to live on.

 

Also, since there just aren't that many decisions to be made in a business, the senior management will want to make them all, so the do-er is stuck following orders.

 

People who are sad about the job they have aren't consciously aware of the tradeoffs they've made -

 

A) They didn't want risk, so they didn't start a business

B) On some level, they might have realized that management involves dealing with conflict and mis-aligned incentives (rewarded for doing things that are bad for the company, or, perhaps, immoral) - so they didn't go into management

C) So they stated technical, the path of least resistance,

D) And got a job in IT, (often) the uber-path of of least resistance,

E) And they've put no effort into getting a better gig

 

Now, if your wife is a stay-at-home mom and you want to work 9-to-5, be done when you get home, and not have to worry about who to lay off, maybe you can and should consciously choose to be a do-er in an IT shop.

 

It's when you don't consciously choose that you feel like a victim and don't know why, ya know what I mean?

Edited June 25, 2009 by somabc