Uniservity v's Moodle

[reggiep]

I have a meeting on Tuesday with my SMT to try to show that moodle would be a good alternative to our LA provided uniservity.

Our LA provided uniservity for us last September and so far it has virtually nothing on it. I believe (my opinion) that the staff just find it a bit too hard to use. I have given some training to the staff on two occasions but nothing has really progressed since then.

I have a test moodle set up that links into a mahara server that I am going to show to the SMT.

One question that has been raised in advance is that uniservity will be able to link into SIMS so that parents from home will be able to view their child's reports online. I don't have a comeback for that one as I don't believe that is possible with moodle. Maybe a fudge would be to use moodle as our VLE and just set a link to the uniservity so parents could see those reports?

 

I don't want to be seen as someone being negative about one VLE over another I just want the chosen one to be a success. I could have just gone with the uniservity choice and sat back.

 

Is anyone else in the same situation?

 

 

Thanks

[beeswax]

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/virtual-learning-platforms/28487-definitive-guide-sims-net-moodle-ldap-integration.html

 

I believe penfold is even offering to do the intergration for a small consideration

[rpwillis]

Penfold_99 has been doing some work on Sims integration which is all open source.

 

I've also started work with some partners about surfacing Sims information in Moodle. Unlikely to be fully available before September though.

 

Richard

 

[edit] Beeswax beat me to it with Penfold and even provided a link!

Edited June 11, 2009 by rpwillis
Comment on Beeswax's post.

[reggiep]

I'm slightly in the dark about what parents need to access by September 2010. Can they access this at the monet through uniservity?

[bossman]

@reggiep:

 

We are going to use Moodle in anger starting this September for year 7s and to facilitate this I will have a windows sharepoint server with Sims webparts allowing parental access how we want it.

 

Also this will facilitate quite a few other features which will enhance the teaching and learning environment.

 

I would think that moving so quickly to another VLE would maybe disillusion quite a few members of staff.

 

We have waited for almost 4 years to see the development of VLEs or VTLEs so that we can make a decision based on factual evidence.

 

You pays yer money and yer takes ur choice :)

 

Good Luck whichever way you go

[reggiep]

@bossman

I think most staff are already cynical about any VLE, with most just seeing it as either an extra burden or just a "fancy website".

Pray do tell more about the sims webparts. Is that a capita provided tool?

I am also hearing about the capita learning gateway, perhaps this could be another solution.

[penfold_99]

@reggiep:

 

Parental access with moodle is something i'm currently working on.

I have a proof of concept working on our test server along with a email parents module.

 

I am currently testing the moodle permissions and what configuration is required so parents don't have access to the wrong area's.

[reggiep]

@penfold

I have been reading your threads on sims intergration with interest. I appreciate that you are doing a lot of work and research on this and if/when you do manage to intergrate maybe I would be able to look at your paid services.

[penfold_99]

@penfold

I have been reading your threads on sims intergration with interest. I appreciate that you are doing a lot of work and research on this and if/when you do manage to intergrate maybe I would be able to look at your paid services.

 

The components will be release open source, i just want to be sure there are not data protection issues.

my system with use the parent email address as the username.

 

do you have a full complement of parental emails?

[reggiep]

Nope, I have about three!

[matt40k]

SIMS webparts is SLG2 (SIMS learning Gateway), it's basically Sharepoint with some SIMS webparts. They can read\write too, uniservity can only, currently, read.

 

Penfold's sims2moodle\ad, currently is accessing SQL directly, which, lets say makes most SIMS support team uneasy, as it breaks the license agreement with Capita (in short). I know Penfold is currently working on using the business model and there is, no "commerical" support, ie no telephone, sla or such currently. Something i'm looking forward to seeing.

 

Uniservity seems to be the baseline.

[penfold_99]

@matt40k

 

well if if capita could understand the business model of open source it would be a help.

They wont supply the business object documentation unless your a technical partner, to become one you need to have signed a nda. the nda is anti competitive against open souce.

 

If i were to become a technical partner myself i would need to fork out £5000 for the privilege, that is a non starter. I could cope with the £140 a site as that is a fee i think school would have a problem with.

[matt40k]

I could cope with the £140 a site as that is a fee i think school would have a problem with.

 

I think you need to ask for prices for uniservity \ SLG2.

 

Yes an opensource community for SIMS\FMS would be good. Just not sure Capita would coff up, like Microsoft did with CodePlex, Redhat did with Fedora...

[forcryingoutloud]

Penfold.... Good job fella, this might just be what everyone needs!

[User3204]

One question that has been raised in advance is that uniservity will be able to link into SIMS so that parents from home will be able to view their child's reports online. I don't have a comeback for that one as I don't believe that is possible with moodle.

 

The Obvious question to ask is, When ? It's not ready yet, and they have been talking about it for a while.

 

We also have the Uniservity as the VLE, by the same LA, although as we already had it as our website, it is full of the old Junk ... err.. information, and until we get a new website running, we can't really run Uniservity as a VLE. So this has stalled, until we get a new website running. The only thing that I have managed to get the Uniservity VLE to do to date, is import users staff and students from SIMS, and this is difficult as it gets very messy, due to the vast array of classes/forms we have.

 

We got SLG2 to provide this access, but as there is no-one who is really in-charge of this, it isn't happening either. It's all installed, running, etc, but it got stalled when I had another project to do.

 

 

Uniservity is difficult to use, but Moodle is a pain to setup. SLG is only really good, because you can pay Capita to set it all up for you, and be up and running within days...

 

 

 

 

The thing to do, if you think Moodle will be easier, is to set up a trial, configure all the LDAP / SIMS integration (as per penfolds). NTLM etc etc, and then a few quick sessions with selected staff on how to use it, and see which is used the most (Wirral LA will be providing limited training for Uniservity).

Edited June 12, 2009 by User3204

[reggiep]

Uniservity is difficult to use, but Moodle is a pain to setup. SLG is only really good, because you can pay Capita to set it all up for you, and be up and running within days...

 

I disagree with saying that moodle is hard to set up! On a windows system you can downlaod the xamp moodle install or even as a linux novice there are some docs to follow to install it. But saying that I do know what you mean. Uniservity has been set up for us and all we have to do it upload the users.

 

If I had the money though and had to choose between the two, it would be a no brainer for me.

[beeswax]

The Obvious question to ask is, When ? It's not ready yet, and they have been talking about it for a while.

 

We also have the Uniservity as the VLE, by the same LA, although as we already had it as our website, it is full of the old Junk ... err.. information, and until we get a new website running, we can't really run Uniservity as a VLE. So this has stalled, until we get a new website running. The only thing that I have managed to get the Uniservity VLE to do to date, is import users staff and students from SIMS, and this is difficult as it gets very messy, due to the vast array of classes/forms we have.

 

We got SLG2 to provide this access, but as there is no-one who is really in-charge of this, it isn't happening either. It's all installed, running, etc, but it got stalled when I had another project to do.

 

 

Uniservity is difficult to use, but Moodle is a pain to setup. SLG is only really good, because you can pay Capita to set it all up for you, and be up and running within days...

 

 

 

 

The thing to do, if you think Moodle will be easier, is to set up a trial, configure all the LDAP / SIMS integration (as per penfolds). NTLM etc etc, and then a few quick sessions with selected staff on how to use it, and see which is used the most (Wirral LA will be providing limited training for Uniservity).

 

@User3204: do Uniservity not do all this for you, or do you run it in-house? How much training did you receive, and were teaching staff also along for any training offered? When our LEA were trying to get us to use Uniservity I was told we'd receive a full day's training, but what was the point of the training if I was eventually going to be tuped across to a managed service and possibly not even be required to go back into the school again? Just over a year ago the LEA persuaded three schools to go with Fronter, and even offered support until this was withdrawn, leaving them on their own. Once again it was the technicians who were left to take responsibility for this and try to muddle through. I see from the forums that some people are trying to set up Fronter support communities, can I infer from this that Fronter either don't offer any support, or whatever support is provided is so poor as to be useless?

Can anyone tell me what happens to the running of a VLE once a managed service is in place? Is it part of the MSP brief to support it? My views on this may be coloured by the fact of the seeming incompetence of our LEA. I'm sure some places get it right.

It seems to me that the important thing for the LEA is to get a VLE in place; it's then up to the schools to sort out their own problems. It's going to work in some schools but not in others

[matt40k]

I disagree with saying that moodle is hard to set up! On a windows system you can downlaod the xamp moodle install or even as a linux novice there are some docs to follow to install it. But saying that I do know what you mean. Uniservity has been set up for us and all we have to do it upload the users.

 

If I had the money though and had to choose between the two, it would be a no brainer for me.

 

I think you understand the whole create the users. SLG can create staff, pupil and parent logins automatically from your SIMS database, otherwise, you've got to create a report, export them, then create a username format (that copes with multiple same name) then import it into AD, then link Moodle with AD! Note if you don't link into AD then you've got the whole, multiple logins, which suck.

 

It'll take at least a day to get the user accounts created, if not more. [WAITS FOR PENFOLD]

[Soulfish]

I disagree with saying that moodle is hard to set up! On a windows system you can downlaod the xamp moodle install or even as a linux novice there are some docs to follow to install it. But saying that I do know what you mean. Uniservity has been set up for us and all we have to do it upload the users.

 

If I had the money though and had to choose between the two, it would be a no brainer for me.

 

If you're running Ubuntu you can even do a apt-get install moodle to have it download and configure it all for you

[CyberNerd]

I think you understand the whole create the users. SLG can create staff, pupil and parent logins automatically from your SIMS database, otherwise, you've got to create a report, export them, then create a username format (that copes with multiple same name) then import it into AD, then link Moodle with AD! Note if you don't link into AD then you've got the whole, multiple logins, which suck.

 

It'll take at least a day to get the user accounts created, if not more. [WAITS FOR PENFOLD]

 

You don't need to create moodle accounts when it is integrated with LDAP/AD - the accounts are automatically created from a template from AD - not from SIMS.

When linking moodle with SIMS, the courses are automatically imported for each user.

[TechMonkey]

You don't need to create moodle accounts when it is integrated with LDAP/AD - the accounts are automatically created from a template from AD - not from SIMS.

When linking moodle with SIMS, the courses are automatically imported for each user.

 

The only problem with users created when they log on is a user can't be managed until they log on, which can cause problems with having classes ready, setting staff up as staff or creating groups.

 

We are getting their with our install, but I can see it being a long summer!

[CyberNerd]

The only problem with users created when they log on is a user can't be managed until they log on, which can cause problems with having classes ready, setting staff up as staff or creating groups.

 

We are getting their with our install, but I can see it being a long summer!

 

 

You can if the courses are automatically imported from SIMS, and have a template user.

Larger courses are metacourses of the smaller courses, the only management I ever need to do is populate metacourses, in sept when everyone goes up a year, they automatically get the new courses.

[matt40k]

You don't need to create moodle accounts when it is integrated with LDAP/AD - the accounts are automatically created from a template from AD - not from SIMS.

When linking moodle with SIMS, the courses are automatically imported for each user.

 

How do you create user accounts in AD? Do you have accounts for parents? That was my point. I'm total for SSO

[CyberNerd]

How do you create user accounts in AD? Do you have accounts for parents? That was my point. I'm total for SSO

 

from a script that pulls the data from SIMS. Penfold is writing a moodle php module to automatically create the AD accounts (in AD)- IIRC there were some 'technical difficulties' that delayed the project.

 

I see your point wrt the parent accounts. I discussed the parent accounts with penfold, the feeling is that it would be best to have local moodle accounts, rather than AD accounts from a security/administration PoV.

[penfold_99]

How do you create user accounts in AD? Do you have accounts for parents? That was my point. I'm total for SSO

 

We create our accounts via a moodle block, this pulls information from sims compares it to AD if the user is missing then the account is created.

 

As for parents is similar but as a moodle enrolment plugin, this is current under testing. The parental account is only a moodle account not AD, as we don't envisage the need to give parents access to services outside moodle.