Who to go with for web hosting...

[_Bat_]

Hi all (again),

 

I've been asked to create a website for two schools and I have three options.

 

1. I can use the space provided by the BGfL (Birmingham Grid for Learning) which is free, but doesn't allow server side scripts such as PHP, so all I get is the equivilant of a geocities webspace without adverts.

 

2. I can host the sites on the school servers, which I really don't want to do because the BGfL are not the most reliable ISP to say the least and I don't trust our servers to be powerful enough either. Also, if it gets hacked, i'd hate it to be a school server they have the potential to trash as opposed to a dedicated webserver.

 

3. I can get the schools to pay for webspace with some provider such as fasthosts. This is the option I would prefer, as I would like server side scripts to work.

 

My question is, for those who had created commercial and/or school websites before, whats the best but not too expensive way of getting webspace? If it's the third option, which company is recommended?

 

Also, does anyone have any other advice, mistakes maybe which they have made in the past or anything that makes designing the website easier? I have only ever created domestic websites before and obviously domestic and commercial are very different.

 

Cheers

[beeswax]

I'm currently with PurpleCloud, who for £20 a year provide you with 4 msql databases and a host (geddit?) of preinstalled software ready to activate, such as Moodle/Mambo/Joomla. They've had some problems recently with moving to a new server, but things seem to be running smoothly now. I use them to try out various cms systems.

If you need to know more, just let me know.

[_Bat_]

Okay, thanks. I'll look into purple cloud. Joomla is popular around here, no? I'll be designing a lot of the school website myself, but certain pages will be designed by the young kids using some (vile) kids website design software that creates terribly messy code. Is Joomla a CMS where I can upload standard HTML pages (the ones created by the kids) and it will merge it with the templates used by the rest of the site?

 

I need to plan this very carefully because if i jump into a CMS and design the site, then find that one simple thing like this doesn't work well, i'll be in trouble lol.

[webman]

Try it out at http://www.opensourcecms.com

[russdev]

plugsocket.co.uk host russdev.com/edugeekconference.net + few other sites very good (if go with them let me know and will give code to get you 10% off).

 

Russell

[_Bat_]

Sorry it took so long to reply to this... only just got permission.

 

 

plugsocket.co.uk host russdev.com/edugeekconference.net + few other sites very good (if go with them let me know and will give code to get you 10% off).

 

Russell

 

I think this looks like a good choice because you appear to have used them for a variety of stuff. I have decided to use Joomla for the website, I know I can install it manually but I have to use them for a couple of websites and it'll save time if they have fantastico or the like which will install it automatically... do they provide this feature?

 

Cheers

[Doudar]

In April I switched my personal web sites to a UK based hosting company called CS New Media. I have been so impressed by the service (support is the best I have came across by far) I am planning on moving the school web sites I maintain over to them.

 

CS New Media

 

Regards

 

John

[russdev]

Sorry it took so long to reply to this... only just got permission.

 

 

plugsocket.co.uk host russdev.com/edugeekconference.net + few other sites very good (if go with them let me know and will give code to get you 10% off).

 

Russell

 

I think this looks like a good choice because you appear to have used them for a variety of stuff. I have decided to use Joomla for the website, I know I can install it manually but I have to use them for a couple of websites and it'll save time if they have fantastico or the like which will install it automatically... do they provide this feature?

 

Cheers

 

James

 

they havnt got auto install for joomla but might be able help there somewhere other day i found a install script basicly upload the single file chmod the dir so that script can write to it and the script pulls stuff across.

 

Second option joomlaclone have an windows program provide ftp details and install it all and then you just run install script.

 

Third option in few weeks should have a autoinstall could use on your site.

 

But installing joomla very easy takes less than 10 mins time is uploading files via ftp once done that you run install and done...

 

Plugsocket joomla works fine installed joomla many times on plugsocket hosting and had no problems..

 

Russ

Russ

[contink]

Small note on the auto-install side of things.

 

Be careful going this route if you intend to apply mods (modifications - otherwise known as "hacks) as many of them tend to get overwritten or borked by the auto-installer when a patch or new release gets applied.

 

For all the learning curve in installing and later maintaining PHP scripts I'd actually recommend you go the manual install route. It takes a little longer but it gives you greater control and flexibility if anything should go awry with the auto scripts. But that's just my opinion.

 

 

I'd stongly recommend keeping your webservers firmly away from your schools LAN as well or you end up with a whole slew of additional security and technical issues to deal with. Keeping it under a good provider is definitely the way to go.

[_Bat_]

they havnt got auto install for joomla but might be able help there somewhere other day i found a install script basicly upload the single file chmod the dir so that script can write to it and the script pulls stuff across.

 

Second option joomlaclone have an windows program provide ftp details and install it all and then you just run install script.

 

Third option in few weeks should have a autoinstall could use on your site.

 

But installing joomla very easy takes less than 10 mins time is uploading files via ftp once done that you run install and done...

 

Plugsocket joomla works fine installed joomla many times on plugsocket hosting and had no problems..

 

Thanks for this info, I will probably contact them later today to discuss prices and such.

 

Small note on the auto-install side of things.

 

Be careful going this route if you intend to apply mods (modifications - otherwise known as "hacks) as many of them tend to get overwritten or borked by the auto-installer when a patch or new release gets applied.

 

Okay, that seems sensible. The main reason I wanted the auto installer was because of the CHMODs, Joomla doesn't explain very well exactly what permissions need to be set on each file (or at least I could not find an explanation anyway) and I recently had several personal websites hacked by the same person in one go due to what was apparently dodgy permissions according to other websites who suffered from the hands of the same hacker. I'm not willing to take that risk with a commercial/school website . i'm sure I can find out exactly what permissions need to be set on each file from somewhere though.

 

I'd stongly recommend keeping your webservers firmly away from your schools LAN as well or you end up with a whole slew of additional security and technical issues to deal with. Keeping it under a good provider is definitely the way to go.

 

Yeah, I had already considered that . I don't think my IT co-ord would be impressed if our school LAN got hacked.

[russdev]

was this a joomla site as joomla will basicly say if needs to change anything but install proccess script does chmod for you anyway

 

russ

[_Bat_]

was this a joomla site as joomla will basicly say if needs to change anything but install proccess script does chmod for you anyway

 

russ

 

Yeah it was, it told me certain files were not writable, yet it wouldn't work unless I CHMOD them to 777, which i didn't think was entirely accurate. I'm not too worried about this anymore though after the posts on this thread.

 

if go with them let me know and will give code to get you 10% off

 

Is this offer still applicable? Lol

[Geoff]

I'd stongly recommend keeping your webservers firmly away from your schools LAN as well or you end up with a whole slew of additional security and technical issues to deal with.

 

I contest this point. Here we have Linux server setup within our school Lan which runs Moodle. It's exposed to the internet at http://vle.carrhill.lancs.sch.uk via reverse proxy run by our RBC.

 

This mitigates a lot of the security concerns as the only thing exposed is apache, php and moodle. As long as I keep those up to date (trivially done with 'apt-get update && apt-get upgrade' on Ubuntu) I fail to see a problem.

 

We get the added benifits of having single sign on for moodle on/offsite and a significant performance boost when using moodle internally. Something we specifically failed to achieve (resulting in us settling for this setup in the first place) when using Moodle hosted by our RBC or an external provider.

[russdev]

was this a joomla site as joomla will basicly say if needs to change anything but install proccess script does chmod for you anyway

 

russ

 

Yeah it was, it told me certain files were not writable, yet it wouldn't work unless I CHMOD them to 777, which i didn't think was entirely accurate. I'm not too worried about this anymore though after the posts on this thread.

 

if go with them let me know and will give code to get you 10% off

 

Is this offer still applicable? Lol

 

yep

 

Russ

[contink]

I'd stongly recommend keeping your webservers firmly away from your schools LAN as well or you end up with a whole slew of additional security and technical issues to deal with.

 

I contest this point. Here we have Linux server setup within our school Lan which runs Moodle. It's exposed to the internet at http://vle.carrhill.lancs.sch.uk via reverse proxy run by our RBC.

For someone who knows what they're doing, can support it properly and knows how to secure it then I'd say go for it.. but for anyone who's "dabbling" or has more than enough on their plate with RIS, staff "requests", and all the usual pupil antics I'd say let a hosting firm look after the security and running of the actual server while allowing yourself to focus on the actual content.

 

That's just my 10 penneth worth...

[GrumbleDook]

Or persuade another school to host it for you and then share resources?

[contink]

Or persuade another school to host it for you and then share resources?

That'd work too... Hadn't thought of that..

[Technomancer]

FYI - BGfL will, in the very near future, be providing webhosting on a full LAMP platform using Joomla!.

[_Bat_]

Yeah, I suspected that they might be after a conference I went to (BITES).

 

I heard that they are designing a template for schools to use with joomla, i'm annoyed cos I was already well into doing my own by the time I heard this. Plus I had already got third party webspace by the time I heard this. Grrr! How annoying!

 

I guess the plus side is that my websites will look very different to all the other schools, giving us a unique feel.

 

The thing I am most pee'd off with is that we are paying for hosting which we will be able to get for free soon. Secondly i'm curious as to what this pre-designed template looks like lol.

 

Incidently, do you work for the BGfL or somewhere related? Is there any place on the web I can get more info about this so the blow won't be so much of a shock when it actually happens? What does the 'very near future' mean?