Replies to my blog post

[dhicks]

And one MAJOR name has more people coming to EduGeek for support on it's products than they do on their site! Thats why almost all of their tech support guys are members

 

Well, there's your business opportunity, right there - providing managed discussion and help groups for education-related products. Companies needn't bother running their own boards, which always wind up looking rather under-populated and sorry for themselves, they can simply point over here to a ready-made bunch of users, a load of which will probably already be using the product and be able to help.

 

For a certain fee a company could get a dedicated discussion group, with their own logo and whatnot, and some assurance that the forum will be properly moderated (i.e. companies needn't worry about unsubstantiated "Gah! This product is a pile of crud!" style posts). In return, we the users get some assurance that someone from the company making the product is actually paying attention on a reasonably regular basis, and that "Product X sucks because of specific reasons Y and Z" or "What this product really needs is more..." style posts might actually result in a better product somewhere down the line.

 

--

David Hicks

[SteveMC]

I agree that software/hardware vendor support forums could be a could idea - Hexus do something along those lines for a few consumer related IT companies and it seems to work pretty well.

 

As others have mentioned, I'm not sure that the Healthcare / Business sectors would create a similar community-feel, as technicians in those organisations (small businesses aside) tend to be able to call upon a larger range of 'in-house' skills and colleagues than are available to the average primary school's IT tech, so would possibly be less inclined to join in the general banter that gives Edugeek such a unique atmosphere.

 

As it happens, the company at which I work (DataSwift) is heavily involved in both NHS and Education (albeit in a geographically constrained area!), and whilst some of the problems encountered are similar, the approach taken to fixing them does vary.

 

Stephen

[HodgeHi]

I like Dhicks suggestions with regards to selling dedicated boards to vendors. This would help all of us. We could mention a product is rubbish and a post could direct us to the vendors section where they discuss how we got to that opinion and possibly resolve the issues with the product. Issue could possibly be a misconfiguration?

 

Also a few more ideas. You could possibly expand on the Eduprojects a little more. Say sell some video tutorials on how to do things and customise your Edu Joomla installs. You could possibly create some podcasts and sell them in iTunes.

 

You could also possibly create some small iPhone apps. The guy who made the iFart made a bomb over the Christmas period, selling his at just the 59 cents mark. I think he cleared just over $3,000 after Apple's cut as well.

 

The Anti-Apple guys are gonna beat me senseless now

[russdev]

Idea number four is more time consuming and probably not viable but adding a seporate wiki to group author a book about the best ways to set up a school network and its impacts and challanges could possibly make some cash in a printed form.

 

 

Funny you should say that I am currently about to start project on very similar lines but will be released under cc but may mileage in looking to link into printing service to offer a print edition.

 

watch this space on jobs this week to get it sorted.

 

Russ

[Dos_Box]

Well, there's your business opportunity, right there - providing managed discussion and help groups for education-related products. Companies needn't bother running their own boards, which always wind up looking rather under-populated and sorry for themselves, they can simply point over here to a ready-made bunch of users, a load of which will probably already be using the product and be able to help.

 

For a certain fee a company could get a dedicated discussion group, with their own logo and whatnot, and some assurance that the forum will be properly moderated (i.e. companies needn't worry about unsubstantiated "Gah! This product is a pile of crud!" style posts). In return, we the users get some assurance that someone from the company making the product is actually paying attention on a reasonably regular basis, and that "Product X sucks because of specific reasons Y and Z" or "What this product really needs is more..." style posts might actually result in a better product somewhere down the line.

 

--

David Hicks

 

Watch this space, we are already working on it. In fact, the company mentioned worked the latest release of it's device software on comments and criticisms found within EduGeek.

[amfony]

well i think that it boils down to the impending doom point of:

 

edugeek needs to cover costs (paraphrasing)

 

To accomplish this i say this: subscription to all new members of a nominal amount, hell to make it "fair" i would subscribe aswell. But to really be fair there have been guys and girls on this forum since day dot, i know i wasnt around then but i have been around for quite a while now and have been recommending to other techs in that time.

 

Is subscription that dirty of an idea?

 

edit: i couldnt put my point together in my head, ill try tomorrow haha

Edited February 16, 2009 by amfony
just a point for internationals

[Dos_Box]

Is subscription that dirty of an idea?

 

Making EduGeek a subscription service has been discussed in depth quite a few times, and TBH wouldn't bring in a fraction of the funds required to run us. I have to make something clear here first. We are not in financial trouble (unlike when out govt says things like this I really mean it!). What I'm trying to do is get a feel for what you would liek to see. If you would like to have a manufacturers forum where you can talk to companies directly (believe me they WANT these) then fine. I had been a little resistant to the idea of puttign them directly into the forum space as this is YOUR area, but a can see both sides of the coin. The way I view EduGeek is like a successful US pioneer town in the late 19th century. I founded the place, stuck a little flag into the landscape of the internet and invited anyone who cared to to join me here. Quite a few of you did, and thanks you very much for doing so. Now we are in the middle of the 20th century, you've built your homes, laid roads and for the most part get on well with your neighbours. I now have more of a mayoral role, seeing things get repaired, planning etc. It is not for me to go into your homes and tell you how to live or force you to move homes\streets etc. That is why we ask you first, unless we have a surprise that is

[witch]

Definitely like the dedicated areas for companies to use as support - as long as they are charged a goodly amount for it - after all they would be getting a HUGE resource that they couldn't access any other way that I can think of.

[sparkeh]

On one hand I really like the idea of direct access to manufactures. It can sometimes be hard to get to the right person in a company or get your point across to a higher level in the company. If a company took their involvement in this community seriously then this could happen more and perhaps our collective voice could actually effect some changes which would be awesome. My optimistic view is that this could be a great thing to do.

 

Of course this could also have some negative effects. Although I truly believe that the Admin team would never enter into anything unsuitable for the community the cynical part of me worries that companies would purely want to tap into a ready made advertising demographic which this whole thing isnt about.

 

Part of me also worries about complaints and grievances against companies getting out of hand. My first thought (and just as an example), looking at some of the previous debates on the subject, is what would a Sophos forum turn out like? People have very strong views on this subject that haven't always remained civilised. If that were directed at a company directly it wouldn't look too professional.

[SimpleSi]

That is why we ask you first, unless we have a surprise that is

 

Name a recent thing where you (or ZH ) asked us first?

 

regards

Simon

[contink]

I don't know if my concerns are stemmed from having run a community project similar to this one and seen what "progress" can do... BUT... one thing springs to mind.

 

The more you grow the more problems can come along... I for one would nix any idea of Medigeek or Bizigeek or whatever. Whilst there are folks here who fit that mould they do so as outliers with common issues that dovetail to the educational focus. Trying to expand that IMHO creates a mess.

 

If I had any wishes in all of this it would be the further development of projects such as video guides for users, best practice information (how to for a network setup), and the like.

 

I would steer clear of the "money making" ideas because if that becomes a focus then the rational for the community loses it's prime focus, which is the end-user (ie: Us!) and more about sponsors, etc.. I don't think that'll happen and I feel comfortable that the balance has been struck in that regard here.

 

As for the company forum spaces, I share Sparkeh's concerns that they could be used for less pleasant purposes. I'd welcome greater links with companies so that support could be more dovetailed to more experienced and knowledgeable users but at the same time there's always that risk of it being used as a marketing platform or for anti-competitor purposes.

 

Anyway, to sum up... I think we have a good mix and balance already. I'd hate to see that topple over if too much change was forced because it was felt we should rather than a more organic growth where change happens more naturally.

 

Just my ten penneth.

[contink]

Definitely like the dedicated areas for companies to use as support - as long as they are charged a goodly amount for it - after all they would be getting a HUGE resource that they couldn't access any other way that I can think of.

 

In this regard I respectfully disagree...

 

Granted a company would benefit from having a support area as a flag flier but IMHO the best investment for us and them would be actual knowledgeable support, prompt replies, issues dealt with and appropriate helpful content that helps the end users.

 

Seems like a win-win that way...

 

If a company gets a space and treats it like a redirect (ie: all problems? email us) then the space is deleted.

[teejay]

I like the idea of manufacturer specific technical forums, would be a really usefull tool.

The main things I come on here for are to offer/receive advice and for the general banter and chat.

I would not be happy with a supscription model for the forums, as I feel they would lose their character. I was browsing for a couple of months beofre joining which wouldn't have been possible with a subscription model.

However, I would be more than happy to pay a subscription for 'premium' services. Some of the things I would pay for would be:

A much more developed, in depth wiki with howto's and a solution database.

Some of the projects.

Graphics suited to the education market.

 

Conferences - haven't been to one yet so really can't comment. I would say that if a supplier wants to peddle their wares at a conference thay should be paying for the priveledge!

 

Just another thought, have you looked at getting grants from say BECTA or the EU?

Edited February 16, 2009 by teejay

[dalsoth]

Let me be slightly negative about this for a moment and post a few of my thoughts that came up when reading this... no really... hopefully replies will alleviate any fears that some members may have with all of these changes proposed.

 

Love what Edugeek is about here so please take these comments without offense intended. Just trying to work out what all the focus on money is about.

 

I "thought" Edugeek was an online forum/community where like minded individuals working in education could meet up, chat and help each other out with problems.

 

All of this focus on cash cash cash seems to be about conferences and pushing Edugeek's reputation with big business. The vast majority of users i would expect do not attend these conferences and see Edugeek as a website community and resource.

 

Some of the comments on here almost appear to be "selling" the technical support skills of the members here to the highest bidder. Just because you have some fantastic members who help solve others problems on the forum is not really a valid reason to sub contract those skills out to the highest commercial bidder. Are the members going to be paid for solutions to problems? After all they are the ones pulling in all the cash and for many of them they only use the forum and don't see the goodies that are on offer other than the forums themselves.

 

Those last few statements may be exaggeration but with ACER man and other outlets suggested, along with "buy through our amazon link so we can get cash" being more or less posted it almost looks as though someone has had a lightbulb moment and realised the cash potential of the site.

 

I suppose regulars and mods will see what i have said as heresy and try to put me up on a stake but i don't mean to offend i am just saying what things kind of look like at the moment from another stand point. Perhaps it is something to bear in mind when investigating new ideas. After all, a community is just that. Push them too far and they go elsewhere. Perhaps with schools being taken over by the BSF process many of the regulars here will slowly fade away as they are shifted into corporate helpdesks. Maybe that is why the focus is now to branch out to ensure Edugeek lives on. Fair play.

 

I think some of the suggestions on here are great though. Including the stuff about a book or article about how to set up and run a schools IT system from scratch. Other ideas i have seen that i think are great are the Edugeek magazine idea and things such as video tutorials for training of staff in education. Think CBT nuggets by forum members on how to do stuff such as add new intakes to the school using batch files etc...

 

Anyhoo, hope i have not enraged anyone as it was not the intention. Keep up the good work.

[Domino]

I think you've read the bit about possible areas of where we're going but missed some of the other bits.

 

There is going to be a need for more revnue to keep hosting the site - thats something thats never going to get smaller.

 

a quick alexa search of the site edugeek.net - Traffic Details from Alexa puts us at 97,171 in the traffic ranking..which is huge!

 

that costs. a lot.

 

As for the conferences etc, thats something that the people who go find useful, interesting and normally a damn good laugh - and they've been going on since I joined (ish)

 

I also don't think there's any talk of selling our expertise - think of it like offering a specialised forum space for a product, people can talk about it, share tips and tricks, etc

 

that way its nice for the company (easy access to an existing group) and good for customers/prospectives as they can talk to existing users.

 

I don't think anyones suggesting we start providing support for anything

[Dos_Box]

I would steer clear of the "money making" ideas because if that becomes a focus then the rational for the community loses it's prime focus, which is the end-user (ie: Us!) and more about sponsors, etc.. I don't think that'll happen and I feel comfortable that the balance has been struck in that regard here.

 

The money making thing is actually to provide better EG services such as a dedicated server in the Australia\NZ locale as their page rendering times are quite bad. The same goes for the continental US. Again, this is several k per annum. I'm not going 'Money, money, money', all the time just to rake in a huge pile of cash, those that know or have met me will vouch for the fact I'm not blowing it all on single malt, champagne and gewgaws then laughing all the way to the bank. We are doing this because there is more to this than just you (the collective 'you' that is) and we need to ensure we reach the people who need us. We have plans, and those plans require pennies to implement for the greater good.

[Domino]

I'm not going 'Money, money, money', all the time just to rake in a huge pile of cash, those that know or have met me will vouch for the fact I'm not blowing it all on single malt, champagne and gewgaws then laughing all the way to the bank.

 

 

HAHA

I just spat coke all over my keyboard.....

[dalsoth]

I'm not going 'Money, money, money', all the time just to rake in a huge pile of cash, those that know or have met me will vouch for the fact I'm not blowing it all on single malt, champagne and gewgaws then laughing all the way to the bank.

 

Not sure what gewgaws is but that made me laugh too:D It made me picture the guy from Inspector Gadget with his cat on the chair and his clawed hand supping champagne and laughing evilly.

 

I think there are some great ideas on here. Not sure about the advertising or the companies on here all the time as i think there are a lot of members who see this place as respite from the gnashing of sales peoples teeth. I very much doubt that the forums will end up full of sales people though but it is something to watch out for.

 

There seem to be a few nice guys on the forums who are sponsors who are always on hand to help with quotes but too many and it will put some off.

 

Perhaps if the site needs cash and i am assuming that things are fine at the moment from reading above, some of the ideas about premium services should be looked at. I know that if this place had policies and video guides and scripts which were something that were available to those that subscribed i would consider it.

 

I know you have many of these things on the wiki now but if someone really put in the time and effort to polish and improve these with training guides and videos i think you would be on to a winner.

 

Policies are such a problem in all schools and to have everything organised in one place guaranteed up to date with the latest legislation it would make lives easier.

 

Anyroad, back to the studies. Don't take my earlier comments as complaints or accusations they were not intended that way. As i said, great job, hope things work out for the better.

[dhicks]

the cynical part of me worries that companies would purely want to tap into a ready made advertising demographic which this whole thing isnt about. Part of me also worries about complaints and grievances against companies getting out of hand.

 

But that's the idea of having a nice, professionally-moderated forum environment that companies would be glad to pay to make use of - someone goes and checks over posts regularly to make sure there's no unsubstantiated rants.

 

On the other hand, us end-users get the same advantage - someone checks posts to make sure there's no cut-and-paste style adverts, all posts are discussion-style, and posts that point out, with no bad language, a product's failings, backed with proved examples, are allowed to stay and can expect a decent reply. A "decent" reply means no dear-x-we-are-sorry-etc-etc waffle from a sales drone, but technically competant replies from someone who knows what they're talking about - a developer or product manager.

 

--

David Hicks

[browolf]

random thoughts:

the blog thing isnt wildly popular atm, how about twitter-esq functionality? or niche social networking. aka GeekBook. companies should feel able to blog new tech/products. or how does offer of the day. an offer of the day system for advertisers. a pay for opt-in mailing list of exclusive articles, like the one windowssecrets.com does (im really tempted to pay for that myself). a business directory sorted by company & product type. a bigger job site. not just edu jobs. a directory of education-related freeware. listings maintained by providers.

[GrumbleDook]

As an ex-admin I have been over on the dark side so hear me out ...

 

1) BETT ... for $deity's sake. It is not just about the meet and greet of existing members, or to get new ones ... that is a by product of the fact that the help point is basically a community service! We are there to help people out. It may not be you, it may be a teacher in your school, or a governor, or a company that is wondering why people have stopped buying their software (well ... it is written in VB5! and yes, that is a comment I had to make this year) Seriously ... BETT is a service, the same way the wiki is, the same way that the projects are ... unfortunately it is one that has to be paid for in pounds rather than in your time.

 

2) new features. There are times when DB, ZH, Russ, Ric_, a mod or a n other will have an idea, it gets batted around a bit, and people don't comment or there is little feedback. There are other times when other changes get picked up and there are long discussions (the logo is the perfect example). Yes, some things do just appear (tabbed forums, etc) but there are times when people like a bit of a surprise. Do you think the site needs to be run as a committee? Seriously ... been there and done that. Committees are teh death of ideas.Does the site need a larger core group doing some of the work? Too right ... and if I could have I would have stopped on as an admin and if others had the time they would help out more. That is the way things are ... I'm just thankful that there are so many of you lot around to help little old me when I need info.

 

3) Money. Please remember that this site is owned by one person and supported by many. At the moment this is being done in everybody's spare time. I was lucky that part of my job allowed me to be very active in it. Now it doesn't. To have more of a positive impact on the quality of support provided by techies in schools then things like the Wiki need to be updated more regularly (taking good practice from the discussions), work needs to be done with groups like Becta to make sure the tech specs and information security stuff is usable ... unfortunately time is money. It takes time to organise conferences and we have done most of them by calling in favours to get free space, access to kit, etc ... you can only do that for so long. Even things like TeachMeet (have a search for unconferences ... the essence of just getting in there and throwing ideas and good practice around) cost money ...

 

4) Chill ... DB has been pretty open and honest about why money is needed, future possibilities and been happy to share what he can when he gets stuff back (freebies, etc) I'm glad he is doing ... heck, I haven't seen a change in the T&Cs every other week like the have on facecrook or WoW!

[SimpleSi]

@grumbledook

 

1) BETT ... for $deity's sake.

 

Just stop and think about it - you were involved with this - you had the experience of doing it - you may have even thought up the idea - just because others think it is not top pri for Edugeek doesn't make their thoughts invalid - we are the members - you are (were) the management - how many workers think the management get it right all the time

 

How many managers think the workers can't see the big picture

 

2) new features. There are times when DB, ZH, Russ, Ric_, a mod or a n other will have an idea, it gets batted around a bit, and people don't comment or there is little feedback..

 

Stop talking and listen

 

Honestly, Edugeek just does things - you don't normally ask - you even brag about the surprises that are coming (if we are lucky) I'm sure within the admin group discussions take place - but not normally out here.

 

There is nothing wrong with this - there is something not quite right with believing that it doesn't happen

 

This thread is the exception BTW!

 

3) Money.....

 

4) Chill ... DB has been pretty open and honest about why money is needed, future possibilities and been happy to share what he can when he gets stuff back (freebies, etc) I'm glad he is doing ... heck, I haven't seen a change in the T&Cs every other week like the have on facecrook or WoW

 

This is a privately owned forum - we've no idea/no right to know about the money - its up to DB - I hope he gets rich and retires to a far off island (Meant in the good sense - not the "go away" one )

 

worker view != management view and never ever will

 

regards

 

Simon

PS back to your retirement home

[leco]

How many managers think the workers can't see the big picture

 

worker view != management view and never ever will

 

On the other hand how many workers think the management can't, or won't, see their point of view?

 

How often is it the case that only those with the loudest voices get heard?

 

How can we, the viewers of this thread, know what discussions, PMs, telephone calls, actual physical meetings happen? Well I can answer that one myself, we can only know if we are told or are a part of them/it. And even then we may only know the bits we ourselves are party to.

 

I for one have faith that the owner, admins and mods of this forum attempt to have everyone's best interests at heart. So what if I don't go to BETT or any conferences? That doesn't change the value, for me, of what the forum is about.

 

Another question then - if we don't stop knocking are we in danger of destroying?

[Ric_]

This is a privately owned forum - we've no idea/no right to know about the money - its up to DB - I hope he gets rich and retires to a far off island (Meant in the good sense - not the "go away" one)

 

It's no secret that DB plans to earn enough money to buy an island in Morecombe bay and retire with his cat - buying a sheep and a cow and breeding horses.

 

How can we, the viewers of this thread, know what discussions, PMs, telephone calls, actual physical meetings happen? Well I can answer that one myself, we can only know if we are told or are a part of them/it. And even then we may only know the bits we ourselves are party to.

 

You have no need to worry about secretive telephone calls and meetings. Indeed, I thought it was common knowledge that EduGeek is run via Messenger (other instant messenger services are available - indeed the EduGeek one is pretty good )and two paper cups connected with a piece of string.

[Domino]

It's no secret that DB plans to earn enough money to buy an island in Morecombe bay and retire with his cat - buying a sheep and a cow and breeding horses.

 

errr Ric,

 

just FYI - breeding a sheep and a cow won't make a horse...

 

 

...sorry