soapyfish Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Hi I was wondering what mehods people use to make SIMs redundant/failover I am currently running 1 sims server which is backed up every night to a DLT drive and the tape from the previous nights backup is taken off site. I contacted capita today and was told that they are developing a redundant/failover system but it will be "some time" until its avaliable. The best option I can think of that will not compromise my support contract is to purchase another server with a DLT drive and configure it with SQL2005 standard and SIMs and should a failure occur with the live server use the most recent backup tape to restore the SIMs.mdf and .ldf etc to the new server. My problem with this arrangement is that It will take 4 hours + to restore. assuming it fails during the working day. I would dearly like to have some kind of failover so that if the server fails the user will notice no loss of service giving me time to repair/replace the dead server while running from the hot spare. Is anyone running such a system while still recieving support from Capita ? The motivation for this is that we are nearing a time where parents will be able to view attendance data and acheivement data from SIMs via our VLE and as the VLE reads the data from SIMs I would like it to be as robust as possible... Maybe I am asking too much !
Gatt Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 I have often wondered this myself - at present we have 1 server which is backed up by the LEA - at least we hope they are (saying they do and actually doing it are 2 differnt things) Often wondered if we could "mirror" the sims server to another box....
kmount Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Forget the tape drive in the redundancy idea, have it (however often you want) synchronise the files over onto the second server over the network which will be a lot quicker than relying on a 4 hour restore. I'm sure you could go even further with the whole process and have it nearer unnoticed but be aware you'll need more licenses for SQL Server likely and technically you should for SIMS.
soapyfish Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 I do have have backup exec 12d on the sims server that will let me restore the database to a seperate server but this assumes that the database and the first server are avaliable. when you say syncronize to another server what software method would you suggest ? I do understand the need for licences for SQL and sims its self
kmount Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Robocopy would do for you I'd imagine, mind you, getting hold of the ldf/mdf during normal operation may be a bit dramatic, maybe shadow volume copying ... oOo, I'm gaining an interest in trying this for myself now. 1
soapyfish Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 Cheers In will look at robocopy not tried it before maybe I can use it with the dbattach program to automate it ?
soapyfish Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 GATT Do you connect to the SIMs server hosted at the LEA or do they just handle the backups ?
kmount Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Well, if you only want to sync them at night you could script a back up with the SQL Admin manager or even harshly do a stop service back up in a sheduled task. I'll have a think but I openly admit there's plenty more experienced folk on here who've probably done this, or at least took bold steps forward in sussing out some pitfalls.
soapyfish Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 Yes I need to look into it very carefully as if cash is required then it will have to deliver all the expectations ! cheers again
Gatt Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 GATT Do you connect to the SIMs server hosted at the LEA or do they just handle the backups ? its managed by the LEA unfortunately.. I do have admin rights for the server though - well with a few restrictions here and thare but in general i have as close to Full rights as i can..
soapyfish Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 So if your server goes down its the LEA's responsibilty completly... that not entirely bad news
RobFuller Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) Just seen post so no applicable really! Edited February 12, 2009 by RobFuller
Gatt Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 So if your server goes down its the LEA's responsibilty completly... that not entirely bad news Yeah its over to the LEA - but Im their Human Shield when the firing squad break my door down!
soapyfish Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 We Currently have no virtulization at all and I did not think that capita would support that setup although I could be wrong is that something that you do ?
Gatt Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Im wondering about setting up a 2nd server then trying to mirror the sql database over onto it and using rsync or a similar tool to copy the file structure across..
soapyfish Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 GATT, I have exactly the same situation with my internet connection when the county supplier messes up (frequent) I end up being their firewall :-( I am just glad they do not manage my SIMs as well !
soapyfish Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 Im wondering about setting up a 2nd server then trying to mirror the sql database over onto it and using rsync or a similar tool to copy the file structure across.. I thinkt that is what Knount was sugesting it sounds like it might be a plan if I can do it without taking the DB offline which I think I can do with the dbattah program...it might mess up the users passwords doing it this way but thats not such a huge issue
Gatt Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Might take a look into Mirroring SQL 2005 at some point Will need a couple of spare boxes to test it first though!
SYNACK Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Why not use the built in replication features of SQL server just set the backup server as a replication subscriber to your primary server and set it to transactional replication which will keep it up to date as the data changes. SQL Server Replication How to Configure SQL Server Site Database Replication Given that it is a simple one way replication handled entirely in the background by SQL it should not cause any issues with the SIMS software and so hopefully they would still support it. 3
soapyfish Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 I in all honesty was not aware that it was able to do so ! i will look into that asap thankyou maybe I can do this over a cross over cable so the backup server is only avalialbe for that purpose (all the servers have 2x NICs)
EduTech Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 I think soon enough, we will be testing the "live transfer" option with vmware, so that if for example the physical server breaks we can just get the virtual machine transfered on another server very quickly. when we had a problem a few months ago.. believe it or not we had sims running of a laptop while the server was being repaired I know you can do a live sync with another server, i dont know weather it would work with SIMS but i suppose its work a try. (appologies about some of the words, i cant think of the correct words at the moment lol) James.
soapyfish Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 I think soon enough, we will be testing the "live transfer" option with vmware, so that if for example the physical server breaks we can just get the virtual machine transfered on another server very quickly. when we had a problem a few months ago.. believe it or not we had sims running of a laptop while the server was being repaired I know you can do a live sync with another server, i dont know weather it would work with SIMS but i suppose its work a try. (appologies about some of the words, i cant think of the correct words at the moment lol) James. I would be very inetested in the success or failure of the live transfer when you do it. if its successful maybe I cen get funds for such an arrangement. Pm me to let me know if thats cool
kmount Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 I didn't even think of using replication but yes, this would be the best way in my opinion moving forward also. If you did this, and maintained a synchronised copy of the S:\SIMS directory you would literally need to just redirect the S drive in however your clients pick it up currently (login script or so) and reboot to be back up.
EduTech Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 I didn't even think of using replication but yes, this would be the best way in my opinion moving forward also. If you did this, and maintained a synchronised copy of the S:\SIMS directory you would literally need to just redirect the S drive in however your clients pick it up currently (login script or so) and reboot to be back up. No Problem, i will let you know how i get on aswell as everyone else. Its something i will be looking at in the next few weeks, going through the procedure.. and giving it a whirl. Back up my VM ofcourse - Watch this space James.
penfold_99 Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Hi I was wondering what mehods people use to make SIMs redundant/failover I am currently running 1 sims server which is backed up every night to a DLT drive and the tape from the previous nights backup is taken off site. I contacted capita today and was told that they are developing a redundant/failover system but it will be "some time" until its avaliable. The best option I can think of that will not compromise my support contract is to purchase another server with a DLT drive and configure it with SQL2005 standard and SIMs and should a failure occur with the live server use the most recent backup tape to restore the SIMs.mdf and .ldf etc to the new server. My problem with this arrangement is that It will take 4 hours + to restore. assuming it fails during the working day. I would dearly like to have some kind of failover so that if the server fails the user will notice no loss of service giving me time to repair/replace the dead server while running from the hot spare. Is anyone running such a system while still recieving support from Capita ? The motivation for this is that we are nearing a time where parents will be able to view attendance data and acheivement data from SIMs via our VLE and as the VLE reads the data from SIMs I would like it to be as robust as possible... Maybe I am asking too much ! To get back up and running after a server failing, could be a little as 10 mins. Have a machine that is capable of running a virtual machine. Create an image and update the image's sims setup folder after every sims upgrade. Have a local backup of the sims.mdf and sims.ldf or a .bak file updated every night. If your primary server fails, boot up the virtual image attach the database and edit your dns setting and sims is back up and running. Keep virtual server running until primary server back up and then once it is copy the sims database back over to the primary server at the end of the day.
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