SimpleSi Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) My last Win98 "server" is starting to crash occasionally so its time to move on In my other schools, I just run a standard desktop machine with w2k3 but I thought I'd see how much a proper solution would cost. I believe all I need is a basic machine with raid drives (one that actually works when a drive fails as opposed to one that's supposed to work when a drive fails ) I currently have a 500GB hard drive plugged into the staff room machine as data backup for the "server" but you can't rely on that as a current backup as someone may have unplugged it The school currently has 40 computers and maybe will ramp up to 60 over next few years so I don't think I need a 64way-core machine Would you big boys and girls offer me some advice on what and where to get please? Cost is THE issue All sponsors welcome to comment regards Simon Edited January 28, 2009 by SimpleSi
westleya Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 What's you budget ? I'm currently commisioning a nice little RAID5 server for one of our big primarys. Cost about £1100, but you can get them a heck of a lot cheaper than that, though. Desktop PC's don't always make the best servers as they're not really designed to be left switched on for months on end. Best regards
strawberry Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 second hand one from somewhere like ict-direct would suffice i think?.
Domino Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 There's normally bargains to be had with reconditioned IBMs..... what will this server be doing though, as this will change the recommended config (I'm hoping it wasn't a win98 DC...)
ricki Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 HI I have just had a quote for a baby server from stone with raid 5 at £1200. Richard
SimpleSi Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 What's you budget ? I'm currently commisioning a nice little RAID5 server for one of our big primarys. Cost about £1100, but you can get them a heck of a lot cheaper than that, though. A lot less than that hopefully A desktop costs what - about £300 - lets compromise on £500 then (and only if I can twist the head's arm ) Desktop PC's don't always make the best servers as they're not really designed to be left switched on for months on end. Well this one has lasted about 5-6 years - it was originally installed by ChrisH in his previous life I think I've only reset it about 4 times (apart from mains failures) what will this server be doing though Simple file/dns/dhcp/print server - possibly running an SQL server if some future program like abacus evolve needs it - not running as DC - I use a mixture of XP pro/ASUS eeePC/XP home clients. I have just had a quote for a baby server from stone with raid 5 at £1200. I need a newborn then regards Simon
strawberry Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 Servers for schools and colleges from ICT Direct Ltd dl580?. ml350?
Domino Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 BAM! HP ProLiant ML115 G5 Tower Server - Misco.co.uk 4 ram slots and 4 HDD slots plus RAID just the ticket
SYNACK Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) BAM! HP ProLiant ML115 G5 Tower Server - Misco.co.uk 4 ram slots and 4 HDD slots plus RAID just the ticket Be careful with SQL on these, any application that gets through a lot of read writes in a short time can overwhelm the mirroring of the controller and corupts the data. I have had this issue on three seporate machines all with built in RAID of varing degrees of goodness, a ML110 (new midway through last year - running SQL), another slightly older ML110 (SQL Express) with IDE raid and a workstation with Raid1 that was running library software (firebird DB) (all different places and software, two of which were not speced by me). If you are going to be putting SQL on it either get a propper RAID controller, point the DB files at a single drive or be ready for many database rebuilds and heaps of stress. Edited January 28, 2009 by SYNACK
krisd32 Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 ICT - Direct will definately sort you with this.
jamin100 Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 look for a Acer Altos G330 mk2 from serversdirect.co.uk and add in the RAID card.
contink Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 I'd be careful about short changing on the hardware for this especially if it's going to be getting more critical in terms of the data or applications on it. Just a thought.
SimpleSi Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 So what's a "proper raid controller" then ? regards Simon
Haptic Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 we have the offer on still shown below £169.99 and the misco price is £379 Exclusive to Edugeek Members and we have 7 left in stock! http://www.edugeek.net/forums/our-advertisers/29027-its-back-hp-ml110-g5-tower-server-169-99-vat-free-delivery.html
contink Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 So what's a "proper raid controller" then ? A hardware one... Can't think of any specific examples right this second unfortunately.
SimpleSi Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 I'd be careful about short changing on the hardware for this especially if it's going to be getting more critical in terms of the data or applications on it. All my schools have run desktop machines as servers for nearly a decade - they all started off as a Win98 machine and when that failed (or the head volunteered some money ) I replaced them with Fujitsu Siemens desktops running w2k3. I've had one hard drive failure and one PSU failure (plus whatever the fault is with this school ) in all that time. Desktops (nice ones with reasonable cooling) work absolutely fine as simple file/print/dns/dhcp servers And as long as its not the hard drive that fails - I can just swap it into another identical machine in minutes and I'm back up and running again But - I wish to move on regards Simon
craiglay Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 With a school that size, +1 for the HP ML110 G5. Excellent value for money and solidly built. 2 of my schools run these, bought off the shelf, upgraded to 2GB RAM, extra HD configured as mirrored RAID from the onboard RAID controller. One school has about 25-30 clients and the other 40-50 ish. They run very well, and I haven't experienced any problems with them over a year (touching wood). If your wanting a solution which you can just move an image to alternate hardware, try experimenting with virtualisation. Ps, I'm also in the process of purchacing one for another school I manage. Craig 1
Haptic Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 With a school that size, +1 for the HP ML110 G5. Excellent value for money and solidly built. 2 of my schools run these, bought off the shelf, upgraded to 2GB RAM, extra HD configured as mirrored RAID from the onboard RAID controller. One school has about 25-30 clients and the other 40-50 ish. They run very well, and I haven't experienced any problems with them over a year (touching wood). If your wanting a solution which you can just move an image to alternate hardware, try experimenting with virtualisation. Ps, I'm also in the process of purchacing one for another school I manage. Craig Be sure to give me a pm if you would like us to put a package together for you, Craig 1
SYNACK Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) So what's a "proper raid controller" then ? As contink said, a hardware one. The non hardware ones offload lots of the work to the CPU using drivers. Even with the fastest CPUs this still leads to increased wait states and incresed usage of the system bus. The CPU is also not designed specificly for the task and so will never be as reliable and fast as a hardware solution when the load gets turned up. The hardware controllers can completely isolate the system from any of the complexity of the raid and by using specificly designed multithreaded hardware can do stuff like span data between two drives and check parity all in one cycle instead of many non dedicated and interuptable cycles that would be needed on a CPU. Something like a large database that is running a query hitting the cpu disks and memory hard will show this up as all it needs is for the CPU/OS drivers to get distracted for a tiny chunk of time and because there is no dedicated buffering memory like on hardware models data if the queue builds up to fast the computer can end up reading old data from the drives while the new data is still waiting to be written. An example of a propper RAID controller would be the hp Smart Array p400 or higher with a healthy dose of cache if you are still looking at the ML115. I will even spec server cpus lower if I have to to get a good raid controller as it has more of a positive impact on the speed for most of the tasks than a few extra megahertz. It also gives you the option of SATA and/or SAS so you can upgrade to speedier drives in future if needed. You'll probably pay the same for the controller as the server but it is transferable and reliability/speed wise its a worthwhile investment. Edited January 28, 2009 by SYNACK 2
Nedders Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 And don't forget to include your other hardware sponsor!!
SimpleSi Posted January 29, 2009 Author Posted January 29, 2009 The win98 machine completly died today so head said go and buy NOW. I gone for the HP ML110 G5 with extra 250GB drive and extra 3GB ram. (Blanched at the £200+ for the extra raid card - will have to add one later if we get any SQL based software ) Thanks for all advice regards Simon
Haptic Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 The win98 machine completly died today so head said go and buy NOW. I gone for the HP ML110 G5 with extra 250GB drive and extra 3GB ram. (Blanched at the £200+ for the extra raid card - will have to add one later if we get any SQL based software ) Thanks for all advice regards Simon Just found you a nice and cheap HP raid card email on its way fella,
SimpleSi Posted January 30, 2009 Author Posted January 30, 2009 Ta The school have agreed to pay for it as well regards Simon 1
SimpleSi Posted February 4, 2009 Author Posted February 4, 2009 JFI We ordered the bits from CPLTD on Friday and they don't seem to have arrived yet (Wed) Simon (CPLTD) is onto the case and there are various reasons for the non-delivery (weather, lost emails, firms saying they'v attempted delivery ...) but at the end of the day I have no server Not good first experience regards Simon
Haptic Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) What can I say , Curse of the new account , It's a shame the country grinds to a halt becuase of the snow but have to say its in the hands of the gods! All other orders placed have been delivered to members so appologies as yours seems the only one not to have Edited February 4, 2009 by Haptic
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