Makes you proud to be British.......

[apoth0r]

If I sound a little stern and harsh in my posts today it's coz i'm having a bit of a relapse. Apologies!

[Guest Guest]

The longest I was out of work for was 2 weeks and I was pulling my hair out with Boredom.

I was soooooo desperate to get back to work I took a job in a kitchen.

 

Im sorry but the more you say the more you are proving my point. 2 weeks out of work is nothing, i think the least ive been between jobs is more than 2 weeks.

And whats bad about working in a kitchen? My current job is the only job ive had which is better than working in a kitchen. Im sure the 2 people in question would jump at the chance of working in as good a job as that!

[tmcd35]

It's funny I can see both sides of the argument here. On the one hand half my family are in the same position as these two here. I was dragged up on the worlds biggest council estate (Dagenham) and to be honest you feel so far down life peeking order you wonder if it's even worth crawling out of bed most morning.

 

Seeing friends and family (including my parents) continuously find themselves in this situation gave me the will to go out and stay employed no matter what. It's alot about self believe and self worth. I don't want to be in that situation again, so I won't.

 

It's very tough getting good honest paid work if you have no skills, no experience and no qualifications.

 

I've only been unemployed once, and that was for about two weeks. It tried to sign on only to be told I did not qualify. The social 'helped' out at £30 a week! I was forced into temping - factory work. If you've ever worked in a factory you'll understand why people will avoid it if at all possible. The worst job I've ever done.

 

The I worked in a petrol station. I couldn't believe the stress level involved for such a low paid no future job! It was only getting off my arse and going to university that got me where I am today. And I couldn't have done that with out the support of my (then unemployed) parents.

 

I can see, once you've convinced them to give you money, why you wouldn't take up a factory or no future retail job. You've either got to retrain or get in with a large retail chain, and you've got to be willing to get out there and make it happen.

[bossman]

I have worked 18hr shifts in the freezing cold up to minus 20 at 16 years of age because I had to support myself as no one else would, retrained got an apprenticeship at nearly eighteen in the textile industry but still had to get on a bus travel 20 miles just to walk up and down the industrial sites in Hull asking for jobs at the receptions.

Have moved about the country on more occasions than enough chasing work sometimes sleeping rough as I had no money but you keep going.

Some employers were too busy to see you some would invite you in for tea and a chat even if there were no jobs but would put you on a list.

It's about getting out there off your a*rse and selling yourself even if you don't have qualifications as that is no excuse.

Now nearly fifty years of age i have been made redundant 6 times but never been out of work cos i have a responsibility not just to my family but to myself and my self esteem, which seems to be sorely lacking in today's young people.

It is a vicious cycle of parents not working and passing on the traits to their children til it gets were we have up to 3 generations who have not worked in their lifetime, bad crack that is and the Government is also partly to blame on this issue for being too bl**dy soft on work shy people who think it is good that they don't have to contribute for their own upkeep.

Take away the dole and benefits and how would they survive some say, well just the same as when there wasn't such a thing. :mad:

[bossman]

@tmcd35:

Proud to know you.

This is where I hail from

 

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bransholme[/ame]

Edited January 14, 2009 by bossman

[apoth0r]

I'm not far off the age of the two in question, if they didn't take advantage of the education system when they had the chance I have no sympathy. I'm sure theres a few kids in the school you work at that you think probably don't deserve to be in your school.

At the end of the day you get out what you put in and things aren't handed to you on a plate. Until people realise this theres going to be the same "excuses" for years and years to come. Simple fact is, some people don't want to work, I know people like this and it doesn't make them any less of a nice person but it's a fact. They can moan about work to me until the cows come home but the simple fact is, there are chances and they just need to learn to motivate themselves and sort it out THEMSELVES.

[Guest Guest]

I have worked 18hr shifts in the freezing cold up to minus 20 at 16 years of age because I had to support myself as no one else would, retrained got an apprenticeship at nearly eighteen in the textile industry but still had to get on a bus travel 20 miles just to walk up and down the industrial sites in Hull asking for jobs at the receptions.

Have moved about the country on more occasions than enough chasing work sometimes sleeping rough as I had no money but you keep going.

Some employers were too busy to see you some would invite you in for tea and a chat even if there were no jobs but would put you on a list.

It's about getting out there off your a*rse and selling yourself even if you don't have qualifications as that is no excuse.

Now nearly fifty years of age i have been made redundant 6 times but never been out of work cos i have a responsibility not just to my family but to myself and my self esteem, which seems to be sorely lacking in today's young people.

It is a vicious cycle of parents not working and passing on the traits to their children til it gets were we have up to 3 generations who have not worked in their lifetime, bad crack that is and the Government is also partly to blame on this issue for being too bl**dy soft on work shy people who think it is good that they don't have to contribute for their own upkeep.

Take away the dole and benefits and how would they survive some say, well just the same as when there wasn't such a thing. :mad:

 

I totally agree with what you are saying, you need to put yourself out there, but there are very few people who would be willing to give up a warm bed and food in their bellies so that they can sleep rough on the chance they will find work.

I comend what you did but i certainly wouldnt recommend it to someone. Theres alot of potential of ending up on the lowest rung of the ladder if you get what i mean.

 

 

On the case of apprentiships. Its all changed now. Hell its changed since i did mine 4 years ago! When i did it you got £40pw and thats it. You couldnt claim any benifits at all so if it wasnt for the fact that my mum and dad were putting a roof over my head it just wouldnt have been possible to drag myself out of the factories.

 

At present my school pays £80pw for our apprentices, but again that would lose them benifits. And at £50pw for a council flat it simply isnt possible unless your parents will pay your way.

[torledo]

I'm sorry but if you want to find a job you will.

There are plenty of jobs out there to take on, I've done all kinds of rubbish jobs that I hated, but the fact you are paid is enough for me. Just because you have a job doesn't mean you can't be looking for something better or a college course in the evenings. I'm sorry but being on benefits for 3 years is just lazy. There IS work, check your local agencies and job centres and you will see there is work for unqualified people but again the excuses of "I don't like it" is not good enough. You don't like the job but you are willing to sit on your arse moaning about not having a job. What a load of rubbish.

 

These people need a kick up the arse for them to realise life isn't all roses and not everything is given to them for free. (I know there are cases which are valid, but these two are obviously cheating the system because they have doused themselves in excuses)

 

It's not what you say it's what you do.

 

That's a tad simplistic, i've done lots of training and did my fair share of crappy jobs before IT, AND i'm getting paid reasonable well compared to some techies but it's nowhere near enough to pay for the exorbitant cost of living in this country over the last decade.

 

And i'm getting penalised for being in the wage band that i am through the progressive tax and handouts system. If i were more dishonest and unscrupulous then i'd probably be able to make work pay but that's not my personality.

 

Also a lot of people have done evening classes and looked at career change paths but it hasn't worked out for them for one reason or another.....just becuase you've got your dream job in IT doesn't mean that everyone 'progresses'. And as i say you've been programmed by the state machine to feel you've 'progressed' becuase you pay 20p in a pound to the govt. in taxes and you worry about getting up at 8:00 in the morning and not being 20mins late.....and if being a wage slave, paying punitive taxation and interest on 25-30 year mortgages or paying off someone elses mortgage through rents is progress then it's a perverse sort of progress if you ask me.

 

I don't buy that work is work, some jobs and work in our economy is utterly pointless......you'd be better off learning something new off the discovery channel at midday and you'd still possibly have more money left over at the end of the month. The moralising about this is a bit rich.....we've had a decade of middle class professional households remortgaging and being indebted up to the eyeballs on cheap credit to pay for a lifestyle, but all we can think to do is have a go at those on benefits for daring to want satelite television and a bit of bling. Only those who aren't indebted to the banks or those who don't accept state handouts can moralise.....and there aren't many of those around.

[tmcd35]

I'm not far off the age of the two in question, if they didn't take advantage of the education system when they had the chance I have no sympathy. I'm sure theres a few kids in the school you work at that you think probably don't deserve to be in your school.

 

Kids will be kids. The majority of my family full into this catagory. If I'd a penny for each time one of them had told me

 

I wish I'd studied more at school

 

The problem is not leaving school without qualfications. The problem is not getting the qualifications/experience once you've realised what a berk you've been.

 

Take my sister for example. 29. Barely worked a day in her life. Four kids, one disabled. Husband, 30, hasn't worked since they married almost 10 years ago.

 

He has just started uni this month and is on his way to become a nurse. My sister, wants to teach (I've tried warning her!), starts uni in September. To be fair to her she did spend 18months trying to start a wedding photography business.

 

If they weren't bleeding the social for every penny they can get, they wouldn't be able to go to uni now and hopefully better their lifes.

[mattx]

but all we can think to do is have a go at those on benefits for daring to want satelite television and a bit of bling.

 

Fine, but work for it first like the majority of people - there are a great deal of things I would like. I would like to up-grade my FMX650, but I can't - shall I go to the social and see if they can get one for me ? No, I shall save up and see if I can afford it in a few years time.

One lesson they don't teach children in schools these days is a very simple one:

Life sucks sometimes but you have to get on with it.

[bossman]

@j17sparky:

£6 per week of which I had to pay rent £4 which included electricty and then buy food and cook it non of this ready made meals or McDonalds etc.

Clothe myself and walk to work every day, there and back 8 miles total.

No one to fall back on including family just me and the big wide world but i got off my ar*se and did it.

I have two children and they have both worked very hard at school one has gone on to college and the other is getting ready for GCSEs in year 10 but they both realise they have to do this because both my wife and myself have instilled this value in them and that is where it comes from "The parents" who give children values and the knowledge of what is right from wrong.

These values are not being instilled in today's young people because of the softly approach to them and their "human rights" so what the government sows is what the government reaps and we are going down the route of America and their sub cultures.

Sorry to Rant but this just infuriates me. :mad:

[apoth0r]

I don't bleed a penny out the system and i'm unable to afford to go to university. Sounds brilliant for someone putting their heart and soul into work and trying to provide services that don't just bleed schools dry. That'll teach me won't it! I better make sure my kids don't follow in my footsteps!

"why bother kids, just get on the dole, theres plenty of sympathy for you..."

[mattx]

"The parents" who give children values and the knowledge of what is right from wrong.

These values are not being instilled in today's young people because of the softly approach to them and their "human rights" so what the government sows is what the government reaps and we are going down the route of America and their sub cultures.

 

Amen to that.

[Guest Guest]

I'm not far off the age of the two in question, if they didn't take advantage of the education system when they had the chance I have no sympathy. .

 

Im sorry but i couldnt possibly disagree with you more! So you are saying that mistakes made when you are a peubesant child should follow you for life. Never heard of second chances?

 

So what is it you suggest these kids do for the next 54 years? Bleed off the system? Because thats all they will be able to do if everyone takes your attitude.

[mattx]

I was thinking back of when I was about 13 [ over 20 years ago ] of when I did a early morning paper round. At Xmas I used to cut up old Xmas cards and stick em in the letter boxes with a 'happy Xmas from your paper boy' message on it.

I used to get tips of around £1 all the way up to a £5.

By the end of Xmas I used to get about £30 to £40 - I used to think I was mega rich !!!!

 

All that just to make a few extra quid..... Took me a whole year to save up for Astro Wars.....

 

http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Grandstand/Grandstand-AstroWars.jpg

Edited January 14, 2009 by mattx

[Guest Guest]

@j17sparky:

£6 per week of which I had to pay rent £4 which included electricty and then buy food and cook it non of this ready made meals or McDonalds etc.

Clothe myself and walk to work every day, there and back 8 miles total.

No one to fall back on including family just me and the big wide world but i got off my ar*se and did it.

I have two children and they have both worked very hard at school one has gone on to college and the other is getting ready for GCSEs in year 10 but they both realise they have to do this because both my wife and myself have instilled this value in them and that is where it comes from "The parents" who give children values and the knowledge of what is right from wrong.

These values are not being instilled in today's young people because of the softly approach to them and their "human rights" so what the government sows is what the government reaps and we are going down the route of America and their sub cultures.

Sorry to Rant but this just infuriates me. :mad:

 

Good on you, i salute you i really do. But there you go, you could afford to pay your rent and put food in your belly, abeit meaning you would walk to work (my longest walk was about 2.5miles and that was far enough in rigger boots! lol). Im yet to see an apprentiship in my area which would pay enough to do that*

 

* thats not to say there isnt any elsewhere. One of my ex's worked in Glasgow on £130 doing an apprentiship. Buit that comes back to what i said earlier, just because it is like that in your area, it doesnt mean its the same alll over the UK.

[mattx]

How come no one is quoting Python's 4 yorkshireman sketch yet.....

[ That may go over the heads of some of the young members though..... ]

[gwendes]

I was thinking back of when I was about 13 [ over 20 years ago ] of when I did a early morning paper round. At Xmas I used to cut up old Xmas cards and stick em in the letter boxes with a 'happy Xmas from your paper boy' message on it.

I used to get tips of around £1 all the way up to a £5.

By the end of Xmas I used to get about £30 to £40 - I used to think I was mega rich !!!!

 

All that just to make a few extra quid..... Took me a whole year to save up for Astro Wars.....

 

http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Grandstand/Grandstand-AstroWars.jpg

 

Same here - although it wasn't 20 years ago! £40? You got a lot more than me!

 

 

I'm just saying that there are areas where not only is a paper round not possible but it would, in fact, be dangerous. Just like there are places where people haven't been offered the opportunity that you have... nature plus nuture...

 

It's easy to just get angry that some people are taking the p155. At the end of the day we live in a free society and we're all free to do the same as the people we get angry with. I'd love to stay in bed in the morning at the moment but I make a free choice that I want my house and my quality of life.

 

It's also a fact that we need a certain amount of people to be unemployed for very good reasons (I think it's about 6%) This is a positive thing for society as a whole.

[bossman]

@j17sparky:

There are second chances and second chances, my wife works amongst this won't work can't work culture trying to help give them a second chance and do you know, they get chance after chance after chance and then they blame the system.

It is the same world for all of us some have it easy some hard but the opportunities are still there if you want them, but most of this work shy culture don't want it, oh yes they make out that they want work but that is all. It becomes a pattern of their failings is everybody else's fault and not theirs, blame someone else culture cos if there's blame there's a claim (sorry bad joke but true).

 

j17sparky: this is not personal just from years of watching this country go down the pan just like America.

[apoth0r]

Im sorry but i couldnt possibly disagree with you more! So you are saying that mistakes made when you are a peubesant child should follow you for life. Never heard of second chances?

 

So what is it you suggest these kids do for the next 54 years? Bleed off the system? Because thats all they will be able to do if everyone takes your attitude.

 

Funny....I'm still waiting for my second chance, but I have a job though so my opinion won't mean a thing.

[mattx]

Funny....I'm still waiting for my second chance, but I have a job though so my opinion won't mean a thing.

 

Can't give you a second chance I'm afraid, will a community chest do ?

 

http://monopoly.cdbpdx.com/GB_PAF_1/tn-250_Mon_GB_PAF-1_CHANCE-CC_All.JPG

[apoth0r]

Hahaha, just when I think this is the worst day ever, the spade slapper pulls out the community chest. Fantastic!!!

:D:D:D:D:D:D

[alexknight]

Unemployment does have its pros and cons, for a start you can't get made redundant if you are unemployed, which is a plus and being unemployed and getting into a rut can be very undermining.

 

I am sympathetic to those that are ill, either mentally or physically or have a similar mitigating dispossision, BUT in my experience a vast majority are unmotivated, disintrested and detached from real life. They are blithly unaware that it is those that work that provide for them and in a lot of cases they do not give a damn.

 

I hear the arguments and read the comments and most of them do not hold water.

 

Take for example the case that they live in a high unemployment area or there are not any jobs for them. Well correct me if I am wrong bot about a millioon jobs over the past few years have been filled with eastern europeans, and other ethinic workers who in a lot of cases do live in 'REAL' poverty and that is what motivates them to get off thier arses and do something about it.

 

The main problem is that these people who leach of the state have no reason to get a job, so why bother when the likes of you and me pay our taxes etc which allows them to do NOTHING.

 

I was brought up in a house with four brothers in one bedroom, two sisters in the other and mum and dad in the other, have gone through two recessions, high unemployment, high intrest rates, have been very very ill on a number of ocassions which has left me with permanent disabilities, and the last time I got a job I moved 170 miles

 

But guess what, I have brought up two children and provided for them and they are now at University.

 

So sorry, I have no sympathy with those that are fit and able that leach of society because they can, and then they moan about it. Most do not have a clue about real hardship.

 

I do suspect though that things may get pretty tough in the next year or so????

 

Alex

[gwendes]

I was brought up in a house with four brothers in one bedroom, two sisters in the other and mum and dad in the other, have gone through two recessions, high unemployment, high intrest rates, have been very very ill on a number of ocassions which has left me with permanent disabilities, and the last time I got a job I moved 170 miles

 

But guess what, I have brought up two children and provided for them and they are now at University.

 

Self satisfied anacedotal evidence - just as I predicted.

 

Until you've lived these kids lives it isn't very fair to make judgement. Sure there are lazy people but I'm proud that I live in a country where I have the freedom not to work if I don't want to and the chance to work and achieve if I do.

 

Of course the system will be abused. What are you suggesting? We take it away?

 

People that can work should, of course they should but you've got to see it as a complicated issue not as a Daily Mail headline.

[bossman]

I am sympathetic to those that are ill, either mentally or physically or have a similar mitigating disposition , BUT in my experience a vast majority are unmotivated, disinterested and detached from real life. They are blithely unaware that it is those that work that provide for them and in a lot of cases they do not give a damn.

Alex

 

And i agree whole heartedly with you.