Having Macs And Windows Computers Running On The Same Netwrok (Windows 2003) How do..

[Antp]

Having Macs And Windows Computers Running On The Same Netwrok (Windows 2003) How do it? our administartors keep on telling the art department that it is not possible, is this true?

[CyberNerd]

Definitely possible, some people just don't like macs.

[Antp]

You couldnt do a dummy guide could you?

so i can proove to the admin it is possible.

I love macs! and et very annoyed with windows networked pcs when im trying to use photoshop or flash!

Thanks

[kmount]

There are different ways of tackling it and it depends wholly upon whether there is a decent gain by doing so.

[Antp]

ok, maybe i can do something good for our network Kmount.

[kmount]

That would be good.

 

Check out google for Apple OSX and Active Directory integration to see whether it's something viable for your network.

[Antp]

i was just thinking we could have one mac being used as a server and the rest connected throught that mac so the admins can edit profiles etc and have that main mac connected straight to the internet. would this be possible and then get the main mac computer to sync files with the stoage server. and use remotedesktop to access the windows pcs when in a mac room.

[kmount]

I'm not a mac guy so don't really know I'm afraid ...

[Rozzer]

Running Macs on a Windows network is surprisingly very easy to do. Plus it works better than integrating any other network such as RM. Novel etc etc.

 

Ross

[Antp]

Just found this

http://www.apple.com/itpro/articles/adintegration/

sounds simple(ish)

[Antp]

Thanks im looking now.

OMG i love House!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

[Antp]

Thanks ross,

how easy would it be to use one of the macs as a server and then get the h: and shared drives to sync between the windows and the osx servers?

[Grommit]

You couldnt do a dummy guide could you?

so i can proove to the admin it is possible.

I love macs! and et very annoyed with windows networked pcs when im trying to use photoshop or flash!

Thanks

 

Another fanboi *sigh*

 

It's not as easy as Kmount is making it out to be.. the Apples have to be configured seprately as the Windows Security that controls the PC won't work on the Apples and therefore could be a security risk...

 

We have apples and gave up trying to have them on the PC domain as it was getting too complicated and there were security risks involved and I as a Windows Network Administrator did not have the Skill Set to work on an Apple server.. and seeing Apples are only 5 to 7% of the market why bother..

 

The best way forward is to make two seperate networks and have a apple X Server controlling the Apples and have the home folders mapped to the Windows Server and the internet run through to the apples

 

And one thing confuses me about your statemet Photoshop works exactly the same on Apple or PC so getting irritated at the PC is really showing you bias towards Apple and I think that this is blinding you a little in your dislike towards PC's..

 

You do know Apples are not the second coming of Jesus Christ you know ?

 

and Ross would say it's easy but look at the Apple certs he has... and you don't see PC Admins bragging about thier certs and listing them..

 

wonder if I am going to get an infraction for slagging off Mac fanbois ?

Edited October 5, 2008 by Grommit

[kmount]

Having re-read my posts, I don't think I made any reference to the ease involved and I openly admitted it wasn't my thing so I wasn't going to recommend any particular route.

[somabc]

Having Macs And Windows Computers Running On The Same Netwrok (Windows 2003) How do it? our administartors keep on telling the art department that it is not possible, is this true?

 

You can't have mac & windows PCs on the same network as the windows PCs will be jealous and refuse to play with the macs, until the macs rise up and overwrite any windows PCs they find with OSX using the new SteveJobsW32.virus.*

 

*Its true, Steve Jobs will announce this new feature at the next WWDC

 

You need some new administrators...

[SteveMC]

It's definitely possible, but depending on the versions of Mac OS X involved it carries a variety of issues (every time Apple release an update, it seems to fix some things, and break others!).

 

We've setup a combined Apple/Windows network over the summer in the following way (just a summary here, as it took a long time to get the details right, and I don't have the info to hand):

 

Step 1: Install and get the Windows side working first (DCs, home folders for users etc.)

Step 2: Install Mac OS X Server (we used 10.5.4, but 10.4 could also work)

Step 3: Bind the Mac OS X Server to the Active Directory network

Step 4: Create a Mac OS X Open Directory Master on the Mac server

Step 5: Install and configure Mac clients as required with all software (imaging if needed)

Step 6: Bind the Mac clients to both Active Directory and the Mac Open Directory (preferably use different names for each)

Step 7: Create groups on the Mac server that contain groups from the Active Directory (that way you can manage Mac user settings)

Step 8: Spend a lot of time battling with the bugs in Mac OS X Server that get in the way (such as it not actually sharing printers when you tell it to do so!)

 

We've finally ended up with it setup that all users authenticate against the Windows Active Directory, have a single home-folder whether they logon to the Macs or PCs. The Mac server is only used for managing the preferences and sharing printers - there's no files stored on it.

 

Stephen

 

Forgot to say that there is *in theory* a way to set this up without using a Mac server at all - it involves modifying the Active Directory Schema. However, it's a very complicated procedure, and the person I know who's tried it (DMcCoy) has I think given up! It also runs the very real risk of destroying your Active Directory in the process...

Edited October 5, 2008 by SteveMC
Schema modifying warning

[Antp]

Sounds like youve got it down to a tee, you couldnt give me some more in-depth info when you have some spare time?

Thanks:getmecoat:

[Grommit]

Sounds like youve got it down to a tee, you couldnt give me some more in-depth info when you have some spare time?

Thanks:getmecoat:

 

and we haven't even touched sides on the security problems of a Mac PC network as well

[HodgeHi]

i Have just finished (ish) my AD - OD integration. I used the Ad-OD integration doc for some of it although i modified my setup slightly.

 

AD-OD integration Doc

 

What i have currently is an Xserve running 10.5.5 with a suite of iMacs runnign client 10.5.5 They authenticate against the AD for users and get their managed prefs from the OD. The iMacs are boot camped whihc means they run both Xp and OS X. Because of this i wanted a better solution to the problem of Macs not being able to update their DNS records. So i manually created the DHCP reservations and then manually created the DNS entries. This made it eaasy to manage the OS X side. This can all be automated during the imaging process using Net-restore and a flat file DB if you specify manual IP with DHCP setting.

 

I scripted the build of my DHCP reservations using netsh and ARD to get the ethernet addresses.

 

I have set the group policies on the AD server to redirect the my docs to the docs folder in the OS X home dir which resides on the AFP share that the clients access over AFp for AD users (set in the Directory Util). I have configured mail on the OS X server for AD users which is easy and i have a fully kerberised system for both OS X and AD users which is now easy to get thanks to the way Leopard 10.5.5 deals with this issue (about the only thing it does well). I have a mail server set up for pupils and this can send and receive mail to staff but cannot send mail out. I have also created an auto mail bundle that creates the mail account for users when they type their email and password.

 

I am currently now in the process of trying to get the ical service working for AD users. I have beeb having a bit of an issue with this. I have managed to get this working at home with the use of augmented records and hope to re-create this success tomorrow.

 

The kids have really gotten to grips with using both systems in school and have even started to ask the question before the beginning of the lesson "is it mac or windows miss?"

 

We are a primary school.

 

I feel i have managed to get a reasonably stable system set up and fully functional at the moment (don't get any thanks though) and i am happy with the way it has turned out.

 

Oh, and i don't have a single apple or ms cert to my name

[HodgeHi]

and we haven't even touched sides on the security problems of a Mac PC network as well

 

What issues do you refer to? I am curious as i haven't read anything about any security concerns.

[localzuk]

Another fanboi *sigh*

 

It's not as easy as Kmount is making it out to be.. the Apples have to be configured seprately as the Windows Security that controls the PC won't work on the Apples and therefore could be a security risk...

 

We have apples and gave up trying to have them on the PC domain as it was getting too complicated and there were security risks involved and I as a Windows Network Administrator did not have the Skill Set to work on an Apple server.. and seeing Apples are only 5 to 7% of the market why bother..

 

The best way forward is to make two seperate networks and have a apple X Server controlling the Apples and have the home folders mapped to the Windows Server and the internet run through to the apples

 

And one thing confuses me about your statemet Photoshop works exactly the same on Apple or PC so getting irritated at the PC is really showing you bias towards Apple and I think that this is blinding you a little in your dislike towards PC's..

 

You do know Apples are not the second coming of Jesus Christ you know ?

 

and Ross would say it's easy but look at the Apple certs he has... and you don't see PC Admins bragging about thier certs and listing them..

 

wonder if I am going to get an infraction for slagging off Mac fanbois ?

 

It took me only about 4 hours to get our mac and windows networks to play nicely together, so I don't know where you're getting the 'it is difficult' view from. (Admittedly, I jumped in straight at the deep end, and had a couple of issues simply down to configuration issues on the windows side of things but it was still relatively easy)

 

I won't go into the whole 'only 5 - 7% of the market' thing though, as the fact that schools are supposed to teach a range of transferable skills and not the market leader only speaks for itself.

[GrumbleDook]

Sounds like youve got it down to a tee, you couldnt give me some more in-depth info when you have some spare time?

Thanks:getmecoat:

 

You mean apart from the stickies at the top of the mac forum?

 

I am happy to come and help you get it all sorted ... your school can approach me directly and I only charge £200 an hour (minimum of 2 days).

 

Now ... let's get back to the reality of this post. Please state the nature of your role within your school. Are you a student, a teacher, admin/support staff or technical support? The answer to your question varies on your role.

[kingswood]

..you don't see Windows admins listing their certs? Perhaps not on this good forum, but there are some

 

Anyway- reality time. Integration should be planned. It's perhaps not as easy as some make it appear (and that's no doubt because they are good administrators), but neither is it as hard as some responses have made it sound.

 

I think Tony has a point though- we can only really help if we know what your role is in your current post.

 

Even so, if you need help with integration and you are the mover and shaker of your school network I am more than willing to help.

 

Paul

[DMcCoy]

It took me only about 4 hours to get our mac and windows networks to play nicely together, so I don't know where you're getting the 'it is difficult' view from. (Admittedly, I jumped in straight at the deep end, and had a couple of issues simply down to configuration issues on the windows side of things but it was still relatively easy)

 

I won't go into the whole 'only 5 - 7% of the market' thing though, as the fact that schools are supposed to teach a range of transferable skills and not the market leader only speaks for itself.

 

Joining AD is the easy bit, it's the rest of the things you want for a complete integration package that make it difficult.

 

As I've mentioned in the past in various versions of 10.4 and 10.5 some things just are broken, and this is usually confirmed by finding a well hidden KB on apples site explaining that it's broken but they really don't care.

 

You can't just install 10.5 server, secure, configure and then bind clients to AD/OD and have them work.

 

Printing is broken and requires manual fixing, SSL for OD is broken and requires manual fixing. The next issue is reliability, join OD/AD and want it to apply the OD preferences each and every boot? Well that's going to take a lot of debugging even on a freshly installed machine.

 

The secret is that Macs hide as many errors as possible in the system.log making it difficult to find them. So this can give the illusion that everything is working perfectly, while things actually aren't.

 

I particularly want to squash the fact that it's related to the administrators experience comfort or skill with OS X, because every minor version of OS X has different flaws.

 

Want to get password changes working correctly (as opposed to when it feels like it) on 10.4.9? Well you can't, no matter how many years experience you have because the AD plugin is broken.

 

Remember that XP has 4 major revisions XP,SP1,SP2,SP3

 

In that time OS X has had 49 (10.0.0 -> 10.5.5)

[aarono]

We have had macs and PCs running on the same network and AD for about 5+ years now. I would recommend it as it is great as an administrator to learn about both. And of course the students get more out of it.

 

However, there are still some teaching staff who whinge and say we should never of gone with macs (mainly because of the costs) but lets face it... teaching staff are an odd breed!