Having Macs And Windows Computers Running On The Same Netwrok (Windows 2003) How do..

[bossman]

And as the song goes "God didn't make those little green apples" I feel there is good and bad areas but hopefully this will be bridged when Jobs and Microsoft with Intel join forces and OSX and Windows will be fully interoperable even though they have different O/Ss and used to the benefit of all.

 

P.S. Just get me rose tinted glasses hehe! ;)

[Antp]

im a student nand

think that our school really needs macs for our media studies and art departments, and as they dual boot and you can get mac minis for £400 (ish)

i think it'd bbe great.

also id like to learn a bit more about the server side of macs.

im 90% sure they would get a few mac minis if i could convinve them that it is fairly easy to integrate them into the current network, also both the head of art and media studies agree that we need macs.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Antp

[DMcCoy]

im a student nand

think that our school really needs macs for our media studies and art departments, and as they dual boot and you can get mac minis for £400 (ish)

i think it'd bbe great.

also id like to learn a bit more about the server side of macs.

im 90% sure they would get a few mac minis if i could convinve them that it is fairly easy to integrate them into the current network, also both the head of art and media studies agree that we need macs.

 

Why do you need the Macs though? Specific applications? Have Media studies and Art produced a viable business case for the macs. Worked out all the various costs for training, software, hardware, additional maintenance costs. You'll be needing a decent Postscript printer too (Adobe postscript preferred).

 

What are the learning aims for the students? How will this be affected by the change in hardware/software? Planned for the increased backup sizes? Multiple home folders or potential directory modifications?

 

Sure, just one or two joined to AD is usually fine. Want to start managing a room and it starts to become disproportionate in the amount of time needed to support.

[MPorter]

Hi AntP

 

I realise that you believe, probably quite rightly, that adding Macs to your schools network would be beneficial to students, especially with Art and Media Studies. These are both subjects that macs lend themselves to very well. However, your IT dept. may well have genuine concerns regarding introducing Macs to the network.

 

Your IT dept. may not have the skillset to support macs, and to introduce them would take a lot of time on their part, diverting attention from other issues in the school. There is also the issue of staff and student training. This again needs proper planning and consultation with key members of staff, else the whole project is doomed to fail.

 

You say that you would like to learn more about the Mac server side. Although very admirable, as a student, the school would need to consider how, if at all, you would be able to assist. There is the issue of giving a priveledged login to a student, as well as possible liability issues surrounding loss of data etc (I'm not certain on this, so someone more knowedgable may be able to tell us more).

 

Maybe an acceptable solution that you could put forward to your teachers would be the purchase of a couple of mac mini's, which as you state, is fairly inexpensive, as a trial. These could be run as stand-alone machines, and access controlled using parental controls. Students could move work between them using memory sticks. This would greatly lessen the impact on the IT staff and allow teaching staff to see how well they fit into their lessons. It may also make converts of your IT staff too!

 

I'm not saying that adding Macs to an Active Directory environment is bad, just that it needs to be properly thought out, planned and managed. At our school, we have quite a few Macs, and apart from a few quirks (like all OS's), they work well. I use a mac for most of my work, including remote server admin. That said, we have a Systems Manager that is very clued up, and specialises on Macs.

 

Hope this helps

 

 

Maria

[Guest Guest]

im a student nand

think that our school really needs macs for our media studies and art departments, and as they dual boot and you can get mac minis for £400 (ish)

i think it'd bbe great

 

Why exactly do you think a bottom of the range mac will be any better than a PC of equal price?

Mac mini's are apples budget internet PC, they are not designed or speced for working with media. Their graphics chips put any serious video editting out the window for a start. You will need to stick another 1gb ram onto the base model as 1gb of ram is just enough for any GUI OS at present, never mind at the end of their 3-5 year life. And you will need to purchase iLife seperately (im assuming this app is the main reason for you wanting macs). And you seem to have forgot that you need a monitor to use a computer, so thats another £400 if you buy from apple. (obviously you could buy monitors seperately and reduce costs by £300, but even then it is still double the price we pay for far higher speced PCs)

 

 

Total cost per PC = £900+ and thats before youve taken out a 3 year warrenty (afaik iMacs are better value for money, yet still not good, so if you are serious about making a case id look at iMacs rather than mini's)

bargain

 

 

There are serious cases for macs, being "cool" isnt one of them

Edited October 9, 2008 by Guest

[GrumbleDook]

Just to follow up on Maria's point of students having administrative access to computer systems ... can I just say "DON'T DO IT!"

 

Students, even trusted ones, should not have access to a domain administrator (or equivalent root) account. The access this can give to the variety of data is scary. If you do have students working with or for you then they should be given delegated access, and you should make sure you are able to audit what they have been done, to protect them from accusations as much as to restrict what they can do.

 

In reply to AntP, I applaud your zeal to look at new systems but have to ask you to think carefully about why you need Macs rather than anything else you have access to. If you search on the 'Net you will find lots of Mac advocacy arguements to help you and these will also give you an idea of why there are many reasons not to make the move. Adding 15 macs and a mac server (even a Mac Mini) will take around 3 months to prepare for, a week or so to roll out, a few months to iron out the problems (and there will be ... there always are with any change of technology) and this is before you get involved with user training. You are looking at a year really. Start planning now to have them for next September.

 

As for the staff at your school ... be open with them. Point them over here and they can find people who have setup and worked with both systems. There is nothing wrong with trying to help to find ideas ... they are only likely to get a tad annoyed if you are *telling* them what to do without having the full picture about why the school makes its choices.

[Antp]

Why exactly do you think a bottom of the range mac will be any better than a PC of equal price?

Mac mini's are apples budget internet PC, they are not designed or speced for working with media. Their graphics chips put any serious video editting out the window for a start. You will need to stick another 1gb ram onto the base model as 1gb of ram is just enough for any GUI OS at present, never mind at the end of their 3-5 year life. And you will need to purchase iLife seperately (im assuming this app is the main reason for you wanting macs). And you seem to have forgot that you need a monitor to use a computer, so thats another £400 if you buy from apple. (obviously you could buy monitors seperately and reduce costs by £300, but even then it is still double the price we pay for far higher speced PCs)

 

 

Total cost per PC = £900+ and thats before youve taken out a 3 year warrenty (afaik iMacs are better value for money, yet still not good, so if you are serious about making a case id look at iMacs rather than mini's)

bargain

 

 

There are serious cases for macs, being "cool" isnt one of them

 

 

i only said mac mini's because we currently have extremely crappy computers in both the art and m.s departments, and tbh noone else (-me) will try doing any serious video editing, its just that currently everyone uses windows movie maker which is terrible runnin over a network. the main use would be for imovie, photoshop and dreamweaver. and dont start saying that you can do that on a pc because you have not been on the compu:)ter s at my school.

[Guest Guest]

i only said mac mini's because we currently have extremely crappy computers in both the art and m.s departments, and tbh noone else (-me) will try doing any serious video editing, its just that currently everyone uses windows movie maker which is terrible runnin over a network. the main use would be for imovie, photoshop and dreamweaver. and dont start saying that you can do that on a pc because you have not been on the compu:)ter s at my school.

 

a) So you want the school to buy Macs just for you? Cant see that happening.

 

b) Any movie application will run terrible on a network. Although apple would disagree with me, macs arnt magic. They cant make a network faster than it already is.

 

c) Your school has not invested enough money in their computers. If they cannot afford to buy adiquately speced PCs why is it that you think they will buy Macs given that Macs are 2-3 times more expensive?

 

 

Like i said there are cases for buying Macs but i am not going to tell you what they are. If you dont know why you need something then you dont really need it.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Guest

[Antp]

A) why do you think that tey are for me only, im not the only person that gets frustrated when using photoshop etc.

 

B)Yeah they spend £400 on the current computers, and most movie editin software is crap ona network but using movie maker is even worse. and macs do run a hell of a lot better when editing.

 

C)Thats why i said Mac mini which cost around £400

[Guest Guest]

A) why do you think that tey are for me only, im not the only person that gets frustrated when using photoshop etc.

 

B)Yeah they spend £400 on the current computers, and most movie editin software is crap ona network but using movie maker is even worse. and macs do run a hell of a lot better when editing.

 

C)Thats why i said Mac mini which cost around £400

 

a) you said you are the only person who would do serious video editting. *Looks at startmenu* Yep, theres photoshop CS3 on my windows PC, i knew i wasnt imagining the fact it is multi-platform.

 

b) please re-read my post, but tbh you dont seem asthough you understand enough of how networks work to grasp that it doesnt matter that much what software or OS you are using.

 

c) Mac Minis are £400 without a monitor, without a 3-5 year warrenty, without software, and will not last 3-5 years in the "factory spec", you will need to upgrade them. They are more expensive than PCs and will actually be less able of doing the tasks you want due to the fact they are not designed to do media editting.

 

 

Look, your NM is not just being awkward. Please if you are serious about this go do some research, repeating your answers several times doesnt make them any less ficticious.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Guest