Thin client advice

[woody]

I have been asked to look at the cost of installing 64 thin clients and obviousley a server to run them on. These will be Win XP. But I have no idea of how to set up a thin client solution. Does MS Server 2003 support thin clients?

 

Basically, can anyone provide me with a shopping list of hardaware / software.

 

Oh, and any suggestions as to where to get it from would be great too.

 

Thanx

[ChrisH]

Moved to the thin client forum

[woody]

Woops, my mistake!!! Doh!

 

Thanks Chris

[ChrisH]

While this package builds and this laptop runs through SFC again..... Server 2003 has Terminal server for your thin client needs. When you say the cleints will be XP what do you mean exactly embedded ? Some kind of terminal etc?

You may want to look at Citrix as well but that will mean more cost so you have to weigh up the features you need versus extra cost.

As for clients you can use old PCs or something like a wise terminal.

Ric is the man to answer your Questions as he has a big Citrix setup and is also doing a talk at the Conference soon if you can make it.

[woody]

Thanks Chris. Now you have pointed out the thin client forum, I have been reading the other threads and got a lot from them. What I mean by the clients running XP, is that I would like them to 'appear' to run XP or similar. Basically I am unfamiliar with the whole thin clients thing, but I guess I am asking for a best case cenario. All the equipment is going to be new - I don't need to look at resurrecting older kit. The servers too. If citrix works best and is easier to set up, then that would be good.

 

But basically I am open to all suggestions.

 

I think I might try to get to the conference.

[Geoff]

Your thin clients don't need to be anything special. Stuff your about to throw out should be sufficent.

 

You can get dedicated thin client boxes though if you want snazzy new stuff.

 

The best person to talk to is Ric.

[russdev]

come to our conference in few weeks time and hear thin client master himself ric talk about it

 

russ

[NetworkGeezer]

Why thinclient in particular? You can set a KIOS environment on desktops using GPO and disk reset systems such as those in DeepFreeze or Microsoft Shared Computer Access toolkit.

[CyberNerd]

Why thinclient in particular?

 

usually: Lower TCO (hardware,licensing,administration) and to allow remote internet access to school software

[CyberNerd]

have a chat with these guys:

http://www.precedence.co.uk/

 

you'll probably need 3 servers for 64 users , dual processor, plenty of ram, fast disks.

I'd recommend the Cirtix route over rdp, it has far better features but isn't so cheap. For the clients you can use existing equipment (>133 pentium), or use dedicated terminals or via epia are quite good -network boot - no moving parts (http://www.thinstation.org)

[NetworkGeezer]

Why thinclient in particular?

 

usually: Lower TCO (hardware,licensing,administration) and to allow remote internet access to school software

 

I like the qualification there. Yes, TCs are good remote access and for admin software but less so on the curriculum side especially if you're into your multimedia CBT software.

[woody]

Thin client mainly because of space (they are pretty small rooms), and for physical security. Somebody here has put the idea forward of having maybe shuttle pcs and putting them all together in a cooled secure cabinet with KVM leads out to the desks. Has anybody done this?

[Andrew_C]

Somebody here has put the idea forward of having maybe shuttle pcs and putting them all together in a cooled secure cabinet with KVM leads out to the desks. Has anybody done this?

I've had a chat with SyLimited about Clear Cube. Very interesting, but seems at first glance expencive. However, if cooling costs are avoided, and there is an increase in security and maintenance is easier (cheaper) it may balance out.

 

Clear Cube System

[Ric_]

Firstly... wait 2 weeks until after my talk at the conference!

 

Secondly... with thin clients, the chances are that you will never have all the clients connected at the same time - I only have Citrix licenses for 150 out of my 200 and they have never all been used! Also, the cost of a thin client terminal device is now only about £130 for the cheapest. Add your TS CAL at £11 and then 1/30th of the cost of the terminal server and the TCO drops dramatically. HP also reckon that the lifespan of a HP terminal is over 30 years!

 

If you want a chat, feel free to skype me on rm_charlton

[MkII]

Nathan/ Tarquel has done shuttle PC's in cupboards and extensions for mice and keboards, standard PC's tho'.`

[john]

I run a lab of Biostars (higher class shuttles) now fine they are on the desks still, but you can stack one on top of another, and still they are the same size as a normal midi tower PC, and if coupled with flat screens you can squish them in very well. Will post pictures of my latest project in a before and after setup when its starts, sort of a storyboard of developing a 21st century IT suite from the depths of Win 95 all the way through to XP Pro and Server 2003 with Censornet, all in 4 days!

[woody]

Ric, thanks for your advice and offer of chat. If we were to go thin client, there would be two rooms back to back of 64 clients. I can guarantee that for many lessons, they will all be in use at the same time bar one or two. But reading your other posts, it's not the cost of licensing that puts me off. I know that you can do it for at least the same price as standard desktops. What worries me is the processing power. I just know that in the IT dept, they will want to do full screen video and video editing, and other processor killing tasks like that. Now then, put into the picture 60 or so thin clients editing 20 minutes of video in Adobe Premiere.

 

Will a thin-client system live up to that?

[ChrisH]

You wont be editing video with a thin client system it cant do it.

[CyberNerd]

If you want full screen iMovie style videoediting then you would be better buying traditional desktops. If you want to create small flash type movie presentations for use in websites/e-books then thin clients will be fine.The newest (v4) of Citrix has much improved sound/video capabilities than previous versions (don't even think of using rdp for this sort of thing). The enterprise edition of Citrix also supports an application isolation environment, the CPU limit on an application can be set so that users can't geek all the resources.

[CyberNerd]

Now then, put into the picture 60 or so thin clients editing 20 minutes of video in Adobe Premiere.

 

sorry I only just read this bit. No, IMO thin client won't cope with this sort of thing. Our media dept use a dedicated suite of macs for videoediting, ICT copes well enough with flash movies.

[john]

The SFF Biostars I mentioned get used for CAD CAD and have I have videoedited on my one of them with no issues, and for £300 you cannot go wrong with them really

[NetworkGeezer]

The SFF Biostars I mentioned get used for CAD CAD and have I have videoedited on my one of them with no issues, and for £300 you cannot go wrong with them really

 

Were you the only user on the server at the time?

[john]

They are not TCs, i was giving another viable option instead of TCs for him. I have not got a TC setup, although we did look at one for the CAD CAM setup, but we decided we didn't need one when we got these Biostars.

[Ric_]

@John: The SFF Biostar machines that I have are pretty naff - not the best build quality that I have ever seen.

 

@woody: Before going down the thin client route, you need to decide what a suite of computers is going to be used for. Most people aren't going to have 60 licenses for Adobe Premier and will maybe have a media suite of 10-15 machines. In this instance, you would install the suite of more powerful machines (poss. dual processor with special video capture cards and HUGE hard disks) so that you can do your video editting efficiently. For everyday use you then simply run the terminal services client and hook into your standard desktop.

 

A standard IT suite is normally just used for general office productivity tasks, light multimedia, a bit of web design, etc. For this you can do everything on the terminal server and have pretty 'dumb' clients. This is where you are able to lower TCO - extend the life of hardware, reduce power consumption, reduce heat output (esp. with TFTs - to the extent where you no longer need air con)...

[ConTheITGuy]

...reduce heat output (esp. with TFTs - to the extent where you no longer need air con)...

 

LOL - we'll probably get to that stage, just as they start to consider the possibilty of us being allowed air con! On second thoughts... probably not.

 

 

Andy