SIMS 64 bit Incompatability

[Willzzz]

The cheapest and easiest (hurrah!) solution our school has found to give all staff access to SIMS is via terminal services. Now a slight trifling problem is that most of SIMS printing is done by outdated 16 bit software.

 

The IT technicians tell me that SIMS is already running on emulated mode on the 64 bit server and that emulating 16 bit code on a 64 bit server just isn't feasible.

 

TTPRINT.exe seems to be the main offender here, but it would be nice to run other antiquated components of SIMS. Any solutions, ideas, etc?

[ChrisH]

Its as they say I am afraid. 64 bit can emulate 32 bit and 32 bit can emulate 16 bit but 64 cant do 16. The only way to do it would be to use a 32 bit server OS but then you wont be able to use all the nice ram that will be in the machine therefore impacting performance.

You may end up needing 2 servers for what that 1 does now.

[CyberNerd]

how about installing a 32bit virtual server on the 64bit hardware, then installing SIMS into that

[Geoff]

There's a third way. Run your 64bit OS on the bare hardware. Run VMware on top of that. Then run two 32bit virtualised terminal servers on top of that.

 

Best of both worlds

[ChrisH]

how about installing a 32bit virtual server on the 64bit hardware, then installing SIMS into that

 

Hmm interesting. What kind of overheads would that be on performance though?

I am interested as we are going this route ourselves soon.

[Geoff]

VMware claim about 2% performance overhead. I'd be more pessimistic and say around 10% depending on load.

[ChrisH]

Mind you this would all be easier if Capita sorted it out .

[Geoff]

True. Even so I think we're stuck with 32bit for a while. I forsee many virtualised 32bit terminal servers being built.

[ChrisH]

I wonder if they will subsidise the extra licencing though ?

[Kyle]

Are they planning on releasing a 64 bit version of Sims?

[Michael]

Are they planning on releasing a 64 bit version of Sims?

 

I think it's inevitable they will at some point. I've also heard there will be a browser based version of Sims.

[FN-GM]

I've also heard there will be a browser based version of Sims.

I have also been lead to believe that. It will be very useful although the full client will need to be installed on our machines anyway for pars .net.

[matt40k]

Capita has only officially supported 64bit since the August '08 release.

 

Capita has a web version, it's called Learning Gateway, version 1 is being dropped soon, version 2, is basically, a Sharepoint add in. I believe you can do pretty much everything on it as you can in the full bloat applications (well v.7 - .net) so do expect to see Nova-T in there anytime soon The closes that'll come to is the HTML cover for staff. For got what it's official called. Brain's melted, not use to all this sun!

[pete]

Capita has a web version, it's called Learning Gateway, version 1 is being dropped soon, version 2, is basically, a Sharepoint add in. I believe you can do pretty much everything on it as you can in the full bloat applications (well v.7 - .net) so do expect to see Nova-T in there anytime soon

 

WRT Learning Gateway and inhouse installs, Capita appear to charge £4k for the app and then another £4k to install and configure sharepoint + the LG addon. According to the Capita forums they won't support self-installed Learning Gateway. http://support.capitaes.co.uk/newforum/main.asp?params=%95%9E%A1%9B%A0%A6%C8%A0%B0%A2%A4%B4%A9%8E%F1%98%94%90%9C%A8%AD%DC%90%AF%A1%91%E6%9B%D7%E7

 

(and yes, the forums make horrible links)

[matt40k]

Sorry, link unavailable

 

 

Anyway, I knew it was alot. Ideally, your LEA would have supported Learning Gateway, so you can a BIG discount. However I've yet to find any LEA that support it. I know most just direct it to Capita.

 

I did hear that Capita doesn't have good support as most of there staff have yet to have training.

 

Personally the TCO isn't as much as going for some other product. You think you've got Exchange\Sharepoint\Active Directory\SIMS all working together. The point of education is to teach people skills they will use in the "real world". Teaching them how to use Sharepoint is quite useful as it's highly possible that where they moved to (small - large businesses) will use Sharepoint (or simpliar) rather then some custom application that is only used in education, such as DigitalBrain etc.

[localzuk]

Anyway, I knew it was alot. Ideally, your LEA would have supported Learning Gateway, so you can a BIG discount. However I've yet to find any LEA that support it. I know most just direct it to Capita.

 

I did hear that Capita doesn't have good support as most of there staff have yet to have training.

 

Personally the TCO isn't as much as going for some other product. You think you've got Exchange\Sharepoint\Active Directory\SIMS all working together. The point of education is to teach people skills they will use in the "real world". Teaching them how to use Sharepoint is quite useful as it's highly possible that where they moved to (small - large businesses) will use Sharepoint (or simpliar) rather then some custom application that is only used in education, such as DigitalBrain etc.

 

Our LEA is going to be supporting it shortly I believe (as they are providing it to schools).

 

But I have to point out that that is not the point of education. ie. we teach skills that are transferrable between products, not particular products. But this has been discussed to death before.

[Willzzz]

Supposing we had several virtual 32 bit servers, would we have to assign each user to a specific server or is there some clever dynamic way when they try to connect?

 

I'm just a SIMS user, I don't understand networks O_o

[matt40k]

Supposing we had several virtual 32 bit servers, would we have to assign each user to a specific server or is there some clever dynamic way when they try to connect?

 

I'm just a SIMS user, I don't understand networks O_o

 

Depends.

 

I know you can load balance MSSQL and thus SIMS. What are you thinking? I assume we talking about spreading the load?

[ChrisH]

I think he is talking about the TS Server and not the client. You would need a third party load balancer or use Citrix. Not sure about the new 2008 offerings.

[matt40k]

Terminal server has built in support for load balancing I though?

[DerekS]

For primary school use, we want to use 2008 Standard 64 bit to keep the OS licence cost down with 16GB, accessed via RDP. Most of the x64 printing failures don't bother us with primaries, ie no need for exams or nova. Everything printed out of SIMS via Office or IE works. Some of the routines have been changed recently to output via a browser, and these print. But the little print button on various browse screens in SIMS doesn't display the printer dialogue box, and then doesn't print. Is this an indication of a 16 bit routine behind the button, or something else?