Who has Ruckus ??

[jamin100]

Were investigating a "proper" wireless solution and have has a quote from ctrl-net. Here's what we need the wireless to do.

 

We have 60 toshiba A200's that are in trolleys and used by students in lessons. Each trolley currently has 2 D-link DWL-7100's and each AP has no more than 8 clients connected to it. Now the problem is that the logon times are really slow and it can take some laptops 8 -10 minutes just to logon.

 

Were, well i'm hoping that by going down the Ruckus route we can improve the speed and reliablilty of the wireless network. So If you have the Ruckus stuff is it worth the money ? Were a 2 form entry primary school and would be spending around 2k on this solution but if it doesnt make the wireless any better then the head is going to hang me!!!!

 

Any advice is appreciated

 

Thanks

[Domino]

did have in my last place.

 

I'd say its worth 2 or 3 times what they charge - the gears bloody amazing.

 

Search for ruckus in the forums

[jamin100]

Thanks Domino, I'm just having a look through the forums now. Spending 2K on a system is a lot for my school and if it goes t1ts up then i'm done for..

 

Once logged on our laptops are fine over the d-link wireless its just the logging on that takes ages. I've tried all sorts of things . . . .

 

Hopefully the head will agree that the wireless kit needs updating and hopefully it'll work as planned

[plexer]

How does ruckus authentication work and I presume domain logons work wirelessly?

 

It appears to use the windows wzc on the client and not anything propriatory?

 

Ben

[john]

Have you arranged a Ruckus Trial at all? I know they are happy to loan you a couple of APs and a Controller for you to trial first, maybe thats worth doing?

 

I am a happy Ruckus person, I moved on before buying the kit but was amazed with it in the trials I did of it.

[actech]

We've just installed a Ruckus system and I am very happy with it. We are still having issues with the pre-authentication, but I put that down to my in-experience. Once connected that range is great and there isno problems changing for AP to AP as you roam the school. We also installed it as we will be upgrading the phone system to an IP based system using wi-fi handsets.

 

No complaints from me!

[jamin100]

Can i ask did you go for G or N ap's?

 

The laptops that we'll be connecting are only wireless G but my boss thinks we should go for the wireless N option but dont really have the budget to go that far ?

[Domino]

I'd say go for G.

 

It'll be a fair while till g range laptops are commonplace, and if you can't afford it there's no point stretching.

 

That said, the antennas in the ruckus gear effectivly make it an N range by anyone elses standards.

[actech]

G ap's.

 

Although they claim they AP's can work on N as well but not if you use the POE option?? Really makes no sense to me?!?

[User3204]

The only wireless networks I have been recommending for people recently is Extricom Extricom they sent a guy out to demo it, and it did roaming aster and easier than anything I have ever seen before.

Basically, because the APs, are just Antennas connected to a central "switch" unit, that does all the Authentication etc, the guy also said you could put in extra APs, to boost the signal, and unlike every other Wireless AP, they didn't interfere with eachothers channels.

 

What we have is Cisco... which wasn't cheap, and means we can't put the APs too close together...

[john]

The Ruckus is smart managing stuff so it manages its channels to ensure its not competing with itself (if i've understood what you have been saying)

 

I used G APs in my trial, and was impressed. Will be contacting Mark at Net Ctrl on Monday RE getting some details on it for my new school as we are going to look into it for our use there. When I say details, I mean trial of it TBH as I know its good kit but the rest of the team need to see it and play with it to know its good just like I did.

[Kipling]

I bought a Ruckus system over summer, didn’t have time to trial them first but read everything about them on here and to be honest there was no competition.

 

Having got the kit all I can say is its amazing, it just works faultlessly. If I were Ruckus I’d be kicking myself for not pitching it in a higher price bracket.

 

If you go for a 6 access point zone-controller and the ‘G’ access points you’ll have change out of your 2k (If you go for the ‘N’ APs they are about £140 a point more than the ‘G’)

 

I’ve never used the D-links so can’t compare them but in real use 10 laptops on one AP ‘feels’ much the same as being cabled at logon, and in daily use we have around 30 laptops mostly hitting one or two APs (depending on which classroom they are in) and its perfectly useable.

 

You’ve got me curious about the actual logon speeds now – if I get chance I’ll do a few timings on Monday and let you know.

 

 

Net-Ctrl are the people to deal with for Ruckus, we dealt with Tony Pullon. They couldn’t have been more helpful.

[Kipling]

How does ruckus authentication work and I presume domain logons work wirelessly?

 

It appears to use the windows wzc on the client and not anything propriatory?

 

Ben

 

We use Ruckus and authenticate using 802.1x and a radius server, but you can pretty much authenticate anyway at all, you can simply have it open or use a pre-shared-key or you can use a PSK manager built in the zone controller. Or any combination of all.

[Kipling]

I’ve just done a few timings, might be interesting to anyone considering wireless.

 

 

Single machine test:

Config Wired: cabled to HP switch at 100Mbs, no other traffic on switch.

A single laptop domain logon when connected via cable averages at 11.378 seconds (average of 5 consecutive logons with 5 newly created users all with same mandatory profile)

 

Config Wireless: ‘g’ laptop connected to a ruckus ‘n’ AP. AP connected to same HP switch as wired tests.

A single laptop domain logon over wireless (with no other wireless traffic) averages at 16.58 seconds (again average of 5 consecutive logons with 5 newly created users all with same mandatory profile)

 

 

 

Group test (16 laptops):

Config wireless: wireless ‘g’ laptops connected to a single Ruckus wireless ‘n’ AP. Laptops position at a distance giving an average signal strength of 20%

16 laptops all logging on simultaneously with a newly created user averages at 246.5 seconds (just over 4 minutes) (average of 2 constitutive logons with 2 newly created users both with same mandatory profile)

 

A bit of maths…

Average Megabytes transmitted during logon (including protocol overhead and retries) was 368.24 Megabytes.

average time of logon was 246.5 seconds

 

Megabytes per second = 368.24MBs / 246.5s = 1.49 Megabytes per second.

 

1.49 Megabytes per second = an average throughput of 11.92 Megabits per second.

 

 

There’s play in all those figures – it was me with a stop watch

 

Hope that’s useful to someone…

[dirtydog]

interesting thread I have just started looking into Ruckus to replace our current setup of 50+ WAPs which I suspect will cost a bit...

[Domino]

It still cheaper than any system by aruba or bluesocket, and you'll probably need less AP's

 

The aerials also shape the signal to avoid interferance and provide max throughput to clients, so placement becomes less of a try and see approach - and they do all that automagically - which is nice.

 

The meshing works pretty well too

[dirtydog]

The aerials also shape the signal to avoid interferance and provide max throughput to clients, so placement becomes less of a try and see approach - and they do all that automagically - which is nice.

 

The meshing works pretty well too

 

I wondered if the meshing was any good or not...? Do all APs do the meshing? Might try and arrange a trial.

[Domino]

yeah they all do the meshing - it also works for bridging - which is a bonus.

 

The only way to get the real effect of how much of a difference the gear makes is to get a trial.

[White_Fi]

I wondered if the meshing was any good or not...? Do all APs do the meshing? Might try and arrange a trial.

 

Hi dirtydog,

 

Net-Ctrl Ruckus Wireless Techie here,

 

Yes the meshing is outstanding; all G AP's are capable of meshing with another G radio AP. All N's with N's however with the current firmware releases does not allow meshing a N AP with a G AP.

 

If meshing is being used I recommend a 3-4hop maximum, a hop being how many AP's are being meshed before it hits a root AP (physically connected AP)

 

I am more than happy to lend you some kit for an eval.

Please contact Mark Power on 01473 281211 if you would like to arrange this.

 

Kind Regards

Stuart White

[john]

I can agree the meshing is great, had my last place's trial set up on meshing and was meshing very very well, so was very pleased with it, had 3 hops with G APs and was fine, no issues at all for me.

 

Do as the nice man from Net-Ctrl says, give Mark a ring and I'm sure he will happily sort you out with a trail for the kit, as seeing is believing, and trust me once you've had this and got the price you won't want the bigger names kit that costs more and wonder how on earth you ever did without it!!!

[dirtydog]

I can agree the meshing is great, had my last place's trial set up on meshing and was meshing very very well, so was very pleased with it, had 3 hops with G APs and was fine, no issues at all for me.

 

Do as the nice man from Net-Ctrl says, give Mark a ring and I'm sure he will happily sort you out with a trail for the kit, as seeing is believing, and trust me once you've had this and got the price you won't want the bigger names kit that costs more and wonder how on earth you ever did without it!!!

 

cheers John,

Already arranged a trial yesterday, cant wait to see it in action on site.

[jamin100]

Just to bring this thread back from the dead (sorry)

 

I have now finally been given the go ahead from our HT and governors to actually purchase this kit. They really only agreed after seeing the p*** poor performance of our tiny d-link 7100ap's.

 

I had 60 laptops all trying to log on this morning in 2 rooms that are located next to each other. Over the space of about 20 yards there were 8 of the Dlink AP's in use (there's 2 ap's on each trolley).

 

It just couldnt cope. Some laptops we not even getting traffic and just saying domain unavailable.

 

Will this ruckus stuff accomodate 60 laptops logging on within close proximity of each other? The logons will of course be a little spread apart.

Edited March 20, 2010 by witch

[MarkPower]

Just to bring this thread back from the dead (sorry)

 

I have now finally been given the go ahead from our HT and governors to actually purchase this kit. They really only agreed after seeing the p*** poor performance of our tiny d-link 7100ap's.

 

I had 60 laptops all trying to log on this morning in 2 rooms that are located next to each other. Over the space of about 20 yards there were 8 of the Dlink AP's in use (there's 2 ap's on each trolley).

 

It just couldnt cope. Some laptops we not even getting traffic and just saying domain unavailable.

 

Will this ruckus stuff accomodate 60 laptops logging on within close proximity of each other? The logons will of course be a little spread apart.

 

Hi Jamin100

 

Think we have already spoken over email regarding this earlier today but just to be sure I wanted to post a reply.

 

Yes the Ruckus solution will allow 60 users to log in at any one time the 1000 series can allow upto 1000 users in one go and the 3000 series upto 5000, but obviosuly this is also going to be very dependant in your network and unlikely to every be experienced in a school. Hovever 60 is a low and easy number for Ruckus to cope with, looking back at the posts you will see a primary school in Birmingham has already experienced 60 users logged in and working using the mini notebooks which I hope may be a nice confidence boost.

 

If you would like to see and speak more about this then we will be on the Edugeek stand G89 for all of the Bett Show next week and happy to meet with you.

 

Look forward to seeing you there.

 

Mark

Edited March 20, 2010 by witch

[jamin100]

Yes Mark, Its me lol..

 

Unfortunatly i cannot make Bett this year but am looking foward to trialing the Ruckus Gear!

[MarkPower]

Thought it was

 

Shame you can't make it

 

Will sort the eval asap for you as promised.