Advantages of Citrix

[FN-GM]

Hi There,

 

What are the advantages of Citrix compared to the usual remote desktop connection?

 

Thanks

 

Z

[powdarrmonkey]

I don't use it but IIRC Citrix pioneered remote application presentation, long before it was even a plan in Server 2008. I think there is a management layer too.

 

Edit: Actually that's a lie, I used it as a user when I was at uni, but I was only there a year before I got bored so I don't remember much about it.

[mattx]

Hi There,

 

What are the advantages of Citrix compared to the usual remote desktop connection?

 

Thanks

 

Z

 

Arrrrr - Citrix - I remember deploying that on a massive scale in my last job....

[ Even wrote a Windows95 Token Ring install procedure for our really old P90's...... ]

Just to add to the insult of the procedure - I did it all via netbui !!

 

Also had a hand in building the citrix server farms too.

 

Not sure if schools get a discount for using it, if not - the cost.......Hmmmmm - put it this way - I hope schools do get a discount !!!

[SpuffMonkey]

I believe it has more efficient display drivers, so you get better response of audio & visual - it also has some fancy back end stuff to load balance over multiple servers - so you can take one (of several) servers offline and fix it or fiddle with it - and the users just notice a small degradation of service, then you can join it back in.

[Domino]

Talk to CyberNerd, He's got a very impressive citrix rollout - most of his computer suites run off of it IIRC

[CyberNerd]

@Domino. Glad you were impressed

 

IMO the advantages are purely administrative. nice gui. things like application isolation environments, software deployment, load balanced farms.

If you just want a remote desktop connection without the fancy things like published apps then save your money. TBH i'm not sure about what 2008 offers in this respect other than the system requirements were XPsp3/vista and would exclude our linux clients.

[Abaddon]

We have a 24 server Citrix farm here, and the main reason for that was the ability to let staff and students access school software and resources from home. It also means we don't have to deploy much software, if any, to the desktops here. It's all done via the web interface, so the experience at home is virtually identical to what they see in school. Expensive? I suppose.. but there IS an educational discount...

[localzuk]

Effective load balancing (it wasn't available as part of standard TS until 2008).

Better multimedia handling, as it can offload load to the terminal for these if you tell it to

Lower bandwidth usage - the ICA protocol is leaner than RDP

Application publishing - this wasn't available as part of TS until 2008, and even then it doesn't contain the same capabilities as far as I'm aware.

 

And I'm sure there are others.

[SpuffMonkey]

We have a 24 server Citrix farm here, and the main reason for that was the ability to let staff and students access school software and resources from home. It also means we don't have to deploy much software, if any, to the desktops here. It's all done via the web interface, so the experience at home is virtually identical to what they see in school. Expensive? I suppose.. but there IS an educational discount...

 

What do you do for IWBs and multimedia stuff - or don't you do any?

[Abaddon]

What do you do for IWBs and multimedia stuff - or don't you do any?

 

IWB's are run from the teacher's desk, usually from their laptops now, but we don also have a PC there just in case. Since the IWB software is loaded locally, it still seems to cover all the bits they need for that. Multimedia bits are generally just done from staff laptops.. there is little on the network here - a lot of it is from websites now, which seems to be ok, as we allow Internet explorer locally obviously, otherwise getting to the internal portals would be tricky! We don't deploy a full Citrix desktop in a lot of cases, but just the web front end.

 

On the full desktop deploys, those bits still work ok.

[Ric_]

7 server farm here with approx 60% of the clients being thin.

 

Citrix advantages are as mentioned - nicer management, load blancing, lighter protocol (i.e. reduced bandwidth usage) and better performance for multimedia (look up speedscreen technologies).

 

We generally use published desktops and this will then allow remote working (initially jsut for staff - licensing costs) as if they are on site.

 

Most IWBs are run from teacher laptops - I don't believe in every teacher having a laptop and then putting a PC in the room too - but in the computer labs a XP machine runs as a thin client, with the IWB software installed locally (kind of wrapping the session).

 

Educational licensing for Citrix isn't bad either... oh yeah... XenApp 5 is available now too... just need to find time to play

[FN-GM]

Thanks for all your advice i appreciate it.

 

7 server farm here with approx 60% of the clients being thin.

 

Citrix advantages are as mentioned - nicer management, load blancing, lighter protocol (i.e. reduced bandwidth usage) and better performance for multimedia (look up speedscreen technologies).

 

We generally use published desktops and this will then allow remote working (initially jsut for staff - licensing costs) as if they are on site.

 

Most IWBs are run from teacher laptops - I don't believe in every teacher having a laptop and then putting a PC in the room too - but in the computer labs a XP machine runs as a thin client, with the IWB software installed locally (kind of wrapping the session).

 

Educational licensing for Citrix isn't bad either... oh yeah... XenApp 5 is available now too... just need to find time to play

 

Do you allow users to run a terminal session form home?

 

Also will anyone close or in the Manchester Area be willing for me to have a look at their setup please?

 

Thanks

 

Z

[MkII]

Wasn't cheaper when we had it 5 years ago - worked out at about £120 per client for the Citrix licence. What's the cost now?

[localzuk]

Wasn't cheaper when we had it 5 years ago - worked out at about £120 per client for the Citrix licence. What's the cost now?

 

Cheaper than what? The cost is around that still, but when you add it all together, the TCO of a citrix system is cheaper than fat client, but more expensive than a vanilla TS system.

[MkII]

Cheaper than what?

As said above - is Citrix cheaper for education?

 

Back then, a terminal supposedly expected to last 50 years had 8mb ram and was capable of displaying ~1000 colours. Those cost £300 ish. The better terminal cost £400 - for that you got extra ports to support local printers.

 

5 years on 5 of these terminals were dead, and we'd scrapped the system. There's also the upgrade cycle of the servers - also expensive.

 

The cost is around that still, but when you add it all together, the TCO of a citrix system is cheaper than fat client, but more expensive than a vanilla TS system.

so I wonder about that statement. Terminals have become cheaper, but then so have fat clients. I think it only makes a difference if you implement it on a massive scale.

There are of course the other advantages to thin client.

[CyberNerd]

Back then, a terminal supposedly expected to last 50 years had 8mb ram and was capable of displaying ~1000 colours. Those cost £300 ish. The better terminal cost £400 - for that you got extra ports to support local printers.

 

Ouch. We just bought 80 thin clients. at a cost of £110 each.

They are 1.6GHz atom with 2GB RAM. they could easily run XP or linux. The projected lifetime is 5yrs.

[bossman]

So basically you can load balance your servers but not run high end multimedia applications from the terminals, so you then have to have loads of laptops kicking about which when attached to IWBs always seem to have a problem but you need them to run all the above hmmmmmmmmmmm!!!! I don't think I will be rushing out to buy just yet.

I will be using a mixture of fat clients and thin clients by this time next year as i feel this is the way forward for our school but will not knock anyone who has gone down the citrix route ok

[linescanner]

You could always look at Sun Ray and Sun Secure Global Desktop.

 

Works out much cheaper than Citrix and has some really cool features that Citrix does not.

 

Sun have a very good pricing model for schools

[CyberNerd]

So basically you can load balance your servers but not run high end multimedia applications from the terminals, so you then have to have loads of laptops kicking about which when attached to IWBs always seem to have a problem but you need them to run all the above hmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!

 

This is a pretty good summary.

The thin clients are only suitable for admin, web-based, text work and most educational applications. we can just get away with flash video on citrix and this covers about 90% of our schools needs. It's quite impractical giving teachers thin client laptops so including the laptops our school total is about 60% thinclient and 40% fat client. We spend about 90% of our time fixing the fat clients.

[FN-GM]

You could always look at Sun Ray and Sun Secure Global Desktop.

 

Works out much cheaper than Citrix and has some really cool features that Citrix does not.

 

Sun have a very good pricing model for schools

 

The only problem with that is integrating it into an existing Windows network.

 

For example we use outlook for our e-mail client on all computers, you wont be able to run this. that is just one example of a piece of software.

 

Z

[bossman]

@CyberNerd: well i don't envy you as I feel if you had fat clients attached to all your IWBs and all your suites a mixture of fat and thin clients depending on the needs i.e. DT and Multimedia studies fat clients, Things would be a little easier for you but this is just my thoughts on the matter.

 

Thanks for being so honest in reply to my previous post

[CyberNerd]

@CyberNerd: well i don't envy you as I feel if you had fat clients attached to all your IWBs and all your suites a mixture of fat and thin clients depending on the needs i.e. DT and Multimedia studies fat clients

 

We do. All IWB's,Laptops and DT/media machines account for about 40% - they are all Fat client (some semi-fat). The problem is that they are more expensive and require more maintenance. Going all thin client is too restrictive (I'd love to, but I can't for the same reasons I can't go all linux. yet.)

[localzuk]

The only problem with that is integrating it into an existing Windows network.

 

For example we use outlook for our e-mail client on all computers, you wont be able to run this. that is just one example of a piece of software.

 

Z

 

Not true. The Sun system simply acts as a middle man between your TS and your terminal. So all your apps are available as normal.

[FN-GM]

ah right, sorry didnt realise

[linescanner]

The only problem with that is integrating it into an existing Windows network.

 

For example we use outlook for our e-mail client on all computers, you wont be able to run this. that is just one example of a piece of software.

 

Z

 

This is not the case. The Sun Ray is just used to paint a picture. Currently the majority of our deployments in schools are Windows 2003 TS.

 

We have SGD providing SIMS access for staff remotely and the students can get to their desktop for home.