CAM Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 Some information straight from Planet Gove here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/266128/2016_KS4_Publication_list_final.pdf Of course, this will probably straddle a general election so anything could happen between now and then. Thanks to @Mikeherrity on Twitter for this.
DataMan Posted December 17, 2013 Author Posted December 17, 2013 Saw this document yesterday, will be very useful now in planning for our Year 9 options in February/March. In short is this how the progress 8 measure will be made up from 2016: 1. English (Double Weighted) 2. Maths (Double Weighted) 3. Sci/MFL/Geo/His 4. Sci/MFL/Geo/His 5. Sci/MFL/Geo/His 6. Any Full GCSE qualification or Vocational from list 7. Any Full GCSE qualification or Vocational from list 8. Any Full GCSE qualification or Vocational from list
mark80 Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Very useful info CAM Any concrete info on the diffrence between performance 8 and attainment 8? Or are they fundamentally using the same 8 subjects but Performance looking at VA and attainment looking at # of A*-C?
CAM Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Sorry but I have no idea, first I heard of it was seeing that document on Twitter last night.
Ecclesbury Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 @DataMan - That is indeed how the Progress & and Attainment 8 will be generated. Attainment 8 will be a simple average points score of those 8 subjects (or 10 really, including double weighted English & Maths) This will be expressed as a grade, e.g. B-, C+ etc. Progress 8 will be a value added measure, so each student will have an estimated Attainment 8 score calculated based on their KS2 attainment and the performance of similar students nationally. The Progress 8 measure will then be the difference between their Actual attainment 8 and this prediction. It will be expressed as an average number of grades above or below (e.g. -0.5 will be half a grade below prediction on average, which incidentally is what they are proposing as the floor standard.) That is as concrete as I know @mark80 - they have not finalised the actual method of calculating the estimated attainment 8, but have said that they will have a decision by Spring 2014 A couple of things to note: English Langauge will only be double weighted if the student also sits English Literature, even if they got a U on English Lit! English Literature can also be counted as one of the additional 3 subjects...but NOT as an ebacc subject The 3 ebacc subjects could be triple science.
pingleby Posted December 19, 2013 Posted December 19, 2013 I am wondering about kids who can't fill some of those qualification slots because they're taking subjects not on the approved list for positions 6, 7 and 8. Do those slots get counted as 0 points (U) for the average?
CAM Posted December 19, 2013 Posted December 19, 2013 How are we going to work this out? The more I read the more complicated it gets. :/
timetableman Posted December 19, 2013 Posted December 19, 2013 pingleby, yes The first 5 slots are reserved for En, Ma, Combination of:(Sci, Sci, MFL, Hum) The last 3 slots are reserved for another other EBACC subject not already counted, another other GCSE, or any other 2016 approved qualification (max 3). When a slot is empty, it counts 0, - therefore the average is pulled down, remembering that E/M count double so would have a double effect. (Statistically) It is better for a student to score a G than nothing, remembering the 10 extra point benefit, - 6 points between each normal grade, but 16 points between a G and a U. I put together a basic spreadsheet which lists each subject in it's order, i.e. English, Maths, EBACC, then the rest, with a formula to count the E, M, best EBACC, and then remainder of other subjects. This layout can then be used give a points value to E&M (0-58), a points value to the largest 3 items in the EBACC columns, and then a points value to any grade other than those already used. Then divided by 8.
Ecclesbury Posted December 20, 2013 Posted December 20, 2013 It's worth noting that the way that the Progress 8 is to be calculated hasn't actually been decided yet (they are considering including a subject level model which would take into account "easier" subjects) so currently we have no way to calculate/estimate this. Equally, just like the current Best8 model, you can never pre-calculate it since it uses the current national cohort data, it can only ever be estimated using the previous year's model. Obviously with Progress 8 this is even worse since we won't have any historic data to use in an estimate until 2017. However, the DfE are proposing to do to 2 things: provide schools with an unpublished calculation of their Progress 8 based on the 2014 data, and also allow schools to opt-in to starting the process a year early. My hope is that one of these 2 things will result in getting hold of some raw data to allow us to model the calculation in 2016 when it really matters. Final thing, another proposal is to actually use historic national data as the framework for the model. So, for example, the Progress 8 estimate would be calculated using the 2013 national data for the 2016 cohort data. I think this is unlikely to happen, but they are also proposing adopting this method in 2019 (so using the first cohort from 2016) It's all fun and games really.
ICTLady Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Our top Maths group take GCSEs in Maths and in Additional Maths. Does anyone know whether Additional Maths counts towards the double-weighted Maths measure, if the result is better than just plain Maths? I am guessing this will work the same way as existing performance measures but, being still fairly new, I don't know how this works. Either way, if one of their Maths GCSEs counts in the Maths measure, will the other one count towards the "Other" subjects, in the same way that English does (best of Lang/Lit double-weighted, the other counted in positions 6-8 if one of the best 8)?
gazskeltz Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Hi, I've done my own analysis: Performance 8 + Attainment 8 + Linear Grades = Potentially Massive Systems Development/Rewrite Therefore the main question is whether to: a) Ask for a Raise (Online) b) Start up a Consultancy Business c) Take a 3 Year Sabbatical Discuss.... Regards Gaz
gazskeltz Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Seriously though, check out this spanner... https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/269438/update_progress_8_measure_secondary_school_accountability_framework_reforms.pdf Regards Gaz
timetableman Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 It is a great spanner, effectively English Language can be ignored, literally to down to a grade U, if there is a chance of someone being able to recite and interpret poetry. In our school, students score better on Literature than Language, so our performance will seem to improve, without even having to make a change.
Ecclesbury Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Big thanks for that link gaz! Most of it was expected based on the last document, but that English Lang/Lit stuff was a real curve ball! Out of interest, is there a definitive way to pick up on the publication of these documents? I'm always worried that I've missed something. Do the DfE have a subscription list, or some kind of news feed?
gazskeltz Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Hi, You could try here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications?departments%5B%5D=department-for-education Spooky what it says on the page though: 1,984 publications by Department for Education Big Brother is watching.....
DataMan Posted January 20, 2014 Author Posted January 20, 2014 I too have been looking at the best way to pick up these documents upon their realese but I haven't found a way yet. They're not that easy to find on the website so it's easy to miss them. I normally pick them up via twitter conatcts but it would be good to know nothing has been overlooked. Cynics might say make sure we buy a Sunday newspaper but I think/hope that was a one off method in terms of sharing future educational policies.
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