CRB Cunninghams warning

[synaesthesia]

Just a heads up for people using or looking to use CRB Cunninghams.

We've recently been extremely shocked to find a £1000 bill to migrate our existing system from one MIS to another. That's a ludicrous amount of money for a few minutes work.

Now apply this to a whole trust and that figure hits £10,000 for an hour work at most.

 

1. We're in the wrong job.

2. This is blatant profiteering from public funds.

 

Not long ago it was a still expensive £650 and they've decided for some reason to raise that. Please therefore be careful when planning MIS migrations.

[PotNoodleTech]

Aproach your new MIS provider see if theres anythiung they can do to help smooth the transition.

 

Two systems we use on the daily that are ultra bad value for tax payers money.

1. Building Management Systems

2. Catering systems.

 

Ive never seen a "good one" of either, they're all garbage, and they both work out monumentally expensive. Theres such a massive gap in the marker there for a good version of either.

[synaesthesia]

Our trust have been working with them for that purpose and unfortunately there's little they can do It's scary really, someone needs to take them on at a legal level.

[mthomas08]

Ouch, we did evaluate them but already moved MIS. We will consider them again when the renewal is up for our current provider (Civica).

 

Useful to know if we do go over to Cunninghams and choose to migrate another MIS (if we end up joining a MAT, I hope they use Bromcom).

 

You kind of expect that to be included within the support package... the only thing I can think of is the flood of requests for it.

It hasn't been a huge task in migrating the data links and I don't think we had any issues so not sure why it's a big task to charge for...

[MrEprise]

Yes, we use Cunninghams & the IT Manager at one of our other schools using them found this out recently as he & we may be moving MIS ourself. He's now trying to organise moving to on-premise SIMS whereas we're moving ahead to use the MIS used by the rest of our Trust.

 

Ho hum.

[mthomas08]

Yes, we use Cunninghams & the IT Manager at one of our other schools using them found this out recently as he & we may be moving MIS ourself. He's now trying to organise moving to on-premise SIMS whereas we're moving ahead to use the MIS used by the rest of our Trust.

 

Ho hum.

 

Ouch, so not only having to pay Cunninghams.. you're moving to in house SIMs? Not sure I would make that choice if given the chance.

Good luck

[David44]

Not trying to defend CRB Cunninghams here but I suspect they get away with this because changing their software to use a different MIS probably isn't easy. Their software (the Impact/Biostore ID Manager combo anyway, I know they have different packages) has various options and configurations all over the place including hidden in obscure .ini files etc. It probably genuinely does take a senior technician to make the changes. If it was just selecting a different MIS from a dropdown list, they wouldn't be able to charge for it. This leads to the situation where there is no incentive for them to improve their software, they make more money by keeping it complex and obscure.

 

We haven't changed MIS but we had a similar experience and charge when we changed payment provider.

[Sylv3r]

It reminds me of the time when the paper notes all moved to the new plastic variation - there was a call out charge for CRB engineer to come out and swap the notes readers out - I think essentially it was a firmware upgrade. I get they had to send someone to site - but you had 3 or 4 revals there was a cost for each or just replace / upgrade them the next time you were on site for another call out !

[DavR]

That's outrageous.

 

We moved MIS earlier this year, and not one of the systems who link to our MIS charged us for the migration.

[mthomas08]

Not trying to defend CRB Cunninghams here but I suspect they get away with this because changing their software to use a different MIS probably isn't easy. Their software (the Impact/Biostore ID Manager combo anyway, I know they have different packages) has various options and configurations all over the place including hidden in obscure .ini files etc. It probably genuinely does take a senior technician to make the changes. If it was just selecting a different MIS from a dropdown list, they wouldn't be able to charge for it. This leads to the situation where there is no incentive for them to improve their software, they make more money by keeping it complex and obscure.

 

We haven't changed MIS but we had a similar experience and charge when we changed payment provider.

 

Civica software is a complete mess and no one seems to know how to support it except 1 guy. We then went down the route of purchasing additional equipment and the same problem. Plus, trying to get a response from someone.. anyone.. seems really difficult.. right now I'm waiting for a response to two important queries.. Yet they were quick to respond regarding quotations and ordering a full blown replacement setup... costing thousands.

 

We have a complex setup which makes it even harder (connects to multiple systems).

 

I wouldn't say CRB are the only ones with that kind of software..

[synaesthesia]

Not trying to defend CRB Cunninghams here but I suspect they get away with this because changing their software to use a different MIS probably isn't easy. Their software (the Impact/Biostore ID Manager combo anyway, I know they have different packages) has various options and configurations all over the place including hidden in obscure .ini files etc. It probably genuinely does take a senior technician to make the changes. If it was just selecting a different MIS from a dropdown list, they wouldn't be able to charge for it. This leads to the situation where there is no incentive for them to improve their software, they make more money by keeping it complex and obscure.

 

We haven't changed MIS but we had a similar experience and charge when we changed payment provider.

 

I agree to a point - but it literally is a 10 minute job per school, and is likely even quicker now there isn't a Biostore/Impact setup (all online via Fusion). Even back then when it was all local it wasn't that much work. And ditto for the note readers - at my last school we bought the kit to do it ourselves - £30 so we could fix 2 readers as opposed to £200 each (and no doubt they charge more for that now too)

[CHiLL]

Not trying to defend CRB Cunninghams here but I suspect they get away with this because changing their software to use a different MIS probably isn't easy. Their software (the Impact/Biostore ID Manager combo anyway, I know they have different packages) has various options and configurations all over the place including hidden in obscure .ini files etc. It probably genuinely does take a senior technician to make the changes. If it was just selecting a different MIS from a dropdown list, they wouldn't be able to charge for it. This leads to the situation where there is no incentive for them to improve their software, they make more money by keeping it complex and obscure.

 

We haven't changed MIS but we had a similar experience and charge when we changed payment provider.

They aren't using Impact/Biostore ID Manager anymore, following contract disputes with IRIS, who own Biostore. Cunninghams are now using Impact Back Office, ID Store Admin and it's all built in-house, so it should be even easier for them.

[MrEprise]

Ouch, so not only having to pay Cunninghams.. you're moving to in house SIMs? Not sure I would make that choice if given the chance.

Good luck

 

We're not, but one of the other Secondaries in the trust is. Silly decision.

[David44]

I wouldn't say CRB are the only ones with that kind of software..

 

Agreed.

I agree to a point - but it literally is a 10 minute job per school, and is likely even quicker now there isn't a Biostore/Impact setup (all online via Fusion). Even back then when it was all local it wasn't that much work. And ditto for the note readers - at my last school we bought the kit to do it ourselves - £30 so we could fix 2 readers as opposed to £200 each (and no doubt they charge more for that now too)

 

10 minute job for one of their people. Try to work out how to do it yourself though...

They aren't using Impact/Biostore ID Manager anymore, following contract disputes with IRIS, who own Biostore. Cunninghams are now using Impact Back Office, ID Store Admin and it's all built in-house, so it should be even easier for them.

 

Maybe for new installs. We have been with CRB Cunninghams for a number of years. We still have their Impact/Biostore product so I can't comment on anything else they offer other than to say that it seems to be the Cunninghams Impact part that still uses .ini files rather than the Biostore part, so getting rid of Biostore probably doesn't help with that much.