Why is Generative AI not blocked by default on LGFL ?

[sigma]

Also, they are marketed as content filters, as they filter web content, but not based on the content. The majority are categorisation or URL filters only.

 

Yes, evaluating once and caching rather than re-evaluating when the content changes.

 

The suppliers need to step up, but that does not excuse the bundlers from not offering up to date versions of product - both our current supplier and our LA do that.

 

I am not a customer of theirs, but I do think that Smoothwall "get it" and are in that direction of travel.

 

The saferinternet.uk.org website seems to be asking the wrong questions which also isn't helpful.

 

SI: Does your product do this?

Supplier: Yes, we do A, B and C and self sign it off.

 

If it doesn't, nobody is bothered as its just a tick box exercise for "Is your supplier on the Saferinternet list?" that schools are mandated to comply with.

[xicor]

I'm interested in the respones you get.

 

In spite of asking for a categorization check of spyce.ai, it still isn't categorised into any category that would cuse it to be blocked for our pupils or KS1/2. Can you ask about this please?

 

The terms for the site state

 

Normally (today), Netsweeper categorised a photo of a sunset, and a picture of Fred Flintstone and a cute sheep as pornography, so why are they being so tardy with this?

I just checked that spyce site and still shows as general and my ticket was closed stating this was resolved, i have re-opened it now

[xicor]

Yes, evaluating once and caching rather than re-evaluating when the content changes.

 

The suppliers need to step up, but that does not excuse the bundlers from not offering up to date versions of product - both our current supplier and our LA do that.

 

I am not a customer of theirs, but I do think that Smoothwall "get it" and are in that direction of travel.

The saferinternet.uk.org website seems to be asking the wrong questions which also isn't helpful.

 

SI: Does your product do this?

Supplier: Yes, we do A, B and C and self sign it off.

 

If it doesn't, nobody is bothered as its just a tick box exercise for "Is your supplier on the Saferinternet list?" that schools are mandated to comply with.

 

do you have to enable https decryption for smoothwall ?

 

`and yes agreed about the safer internet bs - its a checklist exercise

[xicor]

I just checked that spyce site and still shows as general and my ticket was closed stating this was resolved, i have re-opened it now

 

update on this, they are saying that the http one doesn't get categorised as it leads to nothing, they have now updated that too

Edited November 12, 2024 by xicor

[sigma]

to be clear Mark, the core issue here is your systems are not categorising websites correctly and this has nothing to do with my specific school setup - I have also raised another website BoredHumans.com - Free AI Tools which does have links to various inappropriate links within its main domain and yet the logic I'm getting from your team is that only specific sub links are blocked and not even for all schools only for those that have https decryption.

 

it makes no sense to not block the site as a whole as it has more than one link within its subdomain that is not appropriate, yet the message I'm getting is that all schools that do not have https decryption can still access it and the dodgy links within it are still available, only schools with https decryption wont be able to access it, a logic I do not understand and hope you can clarify tomorrow.

 

boredhumans.com got added to one of my lists as a domain block quite a while ago. (Also boredbutton and boredpanda for different reasons).

 

Decryption is essential for us and was a real step up in terms of the fine grained blocking and importantly unblocking we can achieve for some sites, and also for understanding the path a user took if we have to investigate a technical issue or otherwise, where you need to see the whole url audit trail, not just the domain. It opens up better filtering configuration opportunities, and Netsweeper does have some smart capabilities without getting overly complicated – categorisation excepted.

 

At a different school, I enabled decryption for Smoothwall. This was a very old version of the product, and as it was LA hosted, we could never drive it to its full potential compared to (yet another school) where we had our own appliance and could access more features - but it was a long time ago, so I've no direct exposure to current product.

 

The dark art with filtering is being able to identify where your pupils have been allowed on the internet but shouldn’t have been.

[xicor]

boredhumans.com got added to one of my lists as a domain block quite a while ago. (Also boredbutton and boredpanda for different reasons).

 

Decryption is essential for us and was a real step up in terms of the fine grained blocking and importantly unblocking we can achieve for some sites, and also for understanding the path a user took if we have to investigate a technical issue or otherwise, where you need to see the whole url audit trail, not just the domain. It opens up better filtering configuration opportunities, and Netsweeper does have some smart capabilities without getting overly complicated – categorisation excepted.

 

At a different school, I enabled decryption for Smoothwall. This was a very old version of the product, and as it was LA hosted, we could never drive it to its full potential compared to (yet another school) where we had our own appliance and could access more features - but it was a long time ago, so I've no direct exposure to current product.

 

The dark art with filtering is being able to identify where your pupils have been allowed on the internet but shouldn’t have been.

 

How does decryption work for guests or iPads that are taken home ?

 

The boredhumans site is a weird one as lgfl is adamant on not categorising it in a way that blocks the whole site, something hopefully they can clarify tomorrow

[sigma]

How does decryption work for guests or iPads that are taken home ?

 

The boredhumans site is a weird one as lgfl is adamant on not categorising it in a way that blocks the whole site, something hopefully they can clarify tomorrow

 

Anything we don’t like we override in our own lists, temporarily or permanently as needed.

 

We don’t have iPads taken home, but still force pupils through filters if laptops go home. Decryption just works as usual.

 

There are a number of domains that have to be exempt from decryption because it would otherwise break them, and owners such as Google, Apple and Microsoft publish lists, as do many of the other school software vendors where it’s applicable. It’s likely LGFL would be able to help you as other schools will have needed to have covered the bases already.

 

We put all guests (non-school devices), on a separate VLAN and currently they have to have an SSL certificate installed as a condition of using the school network. They get a basic - pupil level of filtering, which we can update to teacher where necessary. The same decryption rules apply.

[xicor]

Anything we don’t like we override in our own lists, temporarily or permanently as needed.

 

We don’t have iPads taken home, but still force pupils through filters if laptops go home. Decryption just works as usual.

 

There are a number of domains that have to be exempt from decryption because it would otherwise break them, and owners such as Google, Apple and Microsoft publish lists, as do many of the other school software vendors where it’s applicable. It’s likely LGFL would be able to help you as other schools will have needed to have covered the bases already.

 

We put all guests (non-school devices), on a separate VLAN and currently they have to have an SSL certificate installed as a condition of using the school network. They get a basic - pupil level of filtering, which we can update to teacher where necessary. The same decryption rules apply.

 

This will help with the granular blocking but it sadly wont fix their biggest issue of not categorising sites correctly, even explicitly obvious ai sites are not classed as ai sites and this is after blocking the ai bundle that LGFL offers

[sigma]

This will help with the granular blocking but it sadly wont fix their biggest issue of not categorising sites correctly, even explicitly obvious ai sites are not classed as ai sites and this is after blocking the ai bundle that LGFL offers

 

I agree, as any improvements in categorisation will likely help the wider Netsweeper user community too.

[tom_newton]

I concur Sigma - most folks saying they do actual content filtering aren't. This is a shame. You do need either an agent in the browser, or SSL inspection turned on for this as well.