School wired/wireless overhaul

[LeMarchand]

One of my sites wants a cost for a complete network overhaul. I know they will never go for it once they see the price so I'm reluctant to get people out to do surveys/quotes. Anyone done c 8 classrooms + maybe 5 more rooms, complete rewire, new switches and new APs so I can get a rough idea?

[synaesthesia]

Yes, did a large infant school a few years ago - 12 classrooms, complete rewire, fiber to one outreach cabinet, new PoE switching throughout (FS.com), new server cab and the latest at the time UniFi WiFi. All in was around 30k - cabling was done by a proper company and wasn't far off the 20k mark (can't remember which way) and the switching & wifi for the rest.

[mw184]

Just had loads of work done over Summer here. No new wiring but new AP's, Server and a few new Switches +configuration and that came to about £16k I believe. But that was for 16 classrooms, 20 ish AP's the new server, 3 new switches and the cost from the company to do it all.

[Net-Ctrl]

If you would like we can run a free predictive survey for you - and build out a switch design to support it and indicative costs for installation if you would like something more formal to present. No buy-in/expectations from us for any work.

[LeMarchand]

If you would like we can run a free predictive survey for you - and build out a switch design to support it and indicative costs for installation if you would like something more formal to present. No buy-in/expectations from us for any work.

 

Thank you. I will see if I can get some sense out of the head first rather than waste your time. I'm sure that if I float £30k they'll just want to buy new points. Ideally the whole place needs gutting and redesigning from scratch as the vast majority of the network is 20+ years old and room usage is very different to the time of installation (no points in most classes). I'd be surprised if they'd even buy up-to-date switches, as a few more APs is much more likely to be within budget.

[PotNoodleTech]

How many rooms? Are they IT suites that need 33 ports or just classrooms that need 2 ports for the teacher?

 

You can rough guess it by £1000 per switch plus £400 per access point plus £125 per double network drop then add another chunk on if the company is gonna be designing it/etc for you plus licencing if your using a licence model wireless.

 

Either way - I would 100% stick to a teacher PC and a cat6e drop for each classroom as it makes things so much more reliable having stuff physically plugged in and ready to go my teachers are off and teaching in 60 seconds no fiddling with laptops worrying about cables or forgetting chargers (or forgetting laptops).

Edited October 2, 2024 by PotNoodleTech

[LeMarchand]

Either way - I would 100% stick to a teacher PC and a cat6e drop for each classroom as it makes things so much more reliable having stuff physically plugged in and ready to go my teachers are off and teaching in 60 seconds no fiddling with laptops worrying about cables or forgetting chargers (or forgetting laptops).

 

Believe me, I've tried pushing for that. Alas, teachers want laptops to use for shopping, Facebook, personal use preparing work off site.

[synaesthesia]

Also worth noting that in the grand scheme of things, extra cable costs comparatively nothing. So if you plan for a cat6a drop per classroom, make it 2. (plus another pair for your AP). 4 per standard classroom, gives you margin for error, addition/changes, troubleshooting in case of rodent or builder caused damages etc.

[PotNoodleTech]

Believe me, I've tried pushing for that. Alas, teachers want laptops to use for shopping, Facebook, personal use preparing work off site.

 

I do both. Wired Teacher PC for reliable teaching and learning, and chromebook for anything else.

[psydii]

A useful reference point:

 

"...it shall be assumed that for Secondary Schools 1.0 data point shall be

required per pupil, for Primary Schools 0.7 data points per pupil and for Special and

Alternative Provision Schools 2.0 data points per pupil. The final number and location of

data points shall be finalised through the design process."

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65803d561c0c2a000d18cf3c/GDB_GenericDesignBrief-A-C17.pdf

[Wave9_Lee]

Thank you. I will see if I can get some sense out of the head first rather than waste your time. I'm sure that if I float £30k they'll just want to buy new points. Ideally the whole place needs gutting and redesigning from scratch as the vast majority of the network is 20+ years old and room usage is very different to the time of installation (no points in most classes). I'd be surprised if they'd even buy up-to-date switches, as a few more APs is much more likely to be within budget.

 

For info, we offer Network as a Service for this very reason - no or low upfront cost, pay for a supported service over 5 or 7 years. Includes, survey, design, installation, hardware, licencing and support. Let me know if this is of interest

[synaesthesia]

A useful reference point:

 

"...it shall be assumed that for Secondary Schools 1.0 data point shall be

required per pupil, for Primary Schools 0.7 data points per pupil and for Special and

Alternative Provision Schools 2.0 data points per pupil. The final number and location of

data points shall be finalised through the design process."

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65803d561c0c2a000d18cf3c/GDB_GenericDesignBrief-A-C17.pdf

 

A policy/guideline written by a committee of salespeople, and a "tired of trying to explain this sh**" network design engineer

[Wave9_Lee]

A policy/guideline written by a committee of salespeople, and a "tired of trying to explain this sh**" network design engineer

 

The amount of unused/unnecessary ports in new build schools is a scandal, especially when you consider they are nearly all patched through to a switch

[dhicks]

So if you plan for a cat6a drop per classroom, make it 2. (plus another pair for your AP).

 

Good point. Depending on the age of the building and setup at the school, one double point at ground level per classroom can be enough - wherever the teacher's desk winds up being in the room, you can always run a bit of trunking around the skirting board and plug a network cable in. If you have another point (or two) at ceiling level it means you can put a wireless access point per classroom if needed. Worth adding that if you're going to be running cables, especially for wireless access points, it might be worth running CAT6 to allow for faster speeds to newer access points.

[msi_school]

Still worth getting installed for future proofing

[psydii]

The amount of unused/unnecessary ports in new build schools is a scandal, especially when you consider they are nearly all patched through to a switch

 

I'm in a BSF refurb - port numbers are similar to that document. and only 1/3 are active

Over the last 15 years many many many ports have been brought into service, and then taken out of service as rooms change function and purpose. Often ports are moved from their install location. Its cheaper than getting new cables run.

The location of Wifi APs was significantly different for ac than it was for pre-standard n, yet we did not need to put in more than a handful of new cable runs to accomodate the new technology.

Some of those cable allocations were actually coiled in voids ready to convert classrooms to IT suites, and covert them we did. This is a trick I have encountered at four schools, and seems to be quite common practice - when you have capital funds - spend them on future proofing.