Schools Week - Arbor’s Kickbacks

[AlistairB1983]

Yikes ok well I'm not sure what representative means to you but I'm a consultant so work with multiple companies including Bromcom as per my signature. I'm not on the payroll but work with them on various projects as and when the needs arise. Just like the migration challenge as I can be the independent judge along with a well known industry bod who used to work at ESS. I also work for a big support team that supports Arbor and SIMS too. I spent years at an LA doing the same thing and whilst I can see where you're coming from to an extent, regardless of my links to Bromcom I'm against the concept of paying cash to a public body based on an incentive scheme. Even ESS don't do that!

 

And yet, from the original article this thread was started about:

 

Nottingham received just over £20,000 for what it said was “a rebate on additional products purchased by schools using SIMS”

So turns out, yes, ESS DO do that. They might dress it up slightly differently, but the fundamental point is exactly the same - money being given from an MIS provider to a Local Authority.

 

Please don't mistake the general negative feelings towards Bromcom's PR department as a condoning what Arbor are (alleged?) to be doing - it's perfectly possible to find the notion of an MIS giving cash to a Local Authority (or other public body) distasteful whilst simultaneously finding the corporate mud-slinging of another MIS (who already has a pretty bad reputation PR wise, given their history) also distasteful. This is not an 'either/or' situation.

[dmj]

It would be nice if Bromcom DID pay out everytime they missed an SLA

[PotNoodleTech]

So are refunds illegal nowadays too?

[Damon]

So maybe I'm misunderstanding then, you're not the Bromcom Damon that:

* Has a Bromcom email address

* Has dozens of pages/blogs on Bromcom websites

* Has been their "Marketing Manager"

* Has been their "Product Owner for UI/UX"

* Has worked on Bromcom stalls at Bett/London Acadmies etc

* "Insert More but I hope you get the point"

?

 

Guess you have a very similar imposter around then! sigh

 

Steve

 

Yeah that's me and I've communicated with you via that email address in the past with no attempt to hide my identity. What I said about my role still stands though, all of those were short term interim stuff to cover gaps that were done on a part time basis around my other roles over the course of about 6 years I think. I still have an opinion on this topic regardless - when I speak about MIS in general on here I tend to say people should explore the market and that both Arbor & Bromcom are good alternatives to SIMS. I tried to cover bases in my sig but that's fine if you don't trust my perspective. That's absolutely your prerogative.

[Primus]

Yeah that's me and I've communicated with you via that email address in the past with no attempt to hide my identity. What I said about my role still stands though, all of those were short term interim stuff to cover gaps that were done on a part time basis around my other roles over the course of about 6 years I think. I still have an opinion on this topic regardless - when I speak about MIS in general on here I tend to say people should explore the market and that both Arbor & Bromcom are good alternatives to SIMS. I tried to cover bases in my sig but that's fine if you don't trust my perspective. That's absolutely your prerogative.

 

👀

* Has a Bromcom email address

* Has dozens of pages/blogs on Bromcom websites

* Has been their "Marketing Manager"

* Has been their "Product Owner for UI/UX"

* Has worked on Bromcom stalls at Bett/London Acadmies etc

👀

[Damon]

And yet, from the original article this thread was started about:

 

Nottingham received just over £20,000 for what it said was “a rebate on additional products purchased by schools using SIMS”

So turns out, yes, ESS DO do that. They might dress it up slightly differently, but the fundamental point is exactly the same - money being given from an MIS provider to a Local Authority.

 

Please don't mistake the general negative feelings towards Bromcom's PR department as a condoning what Arbor are (alleged?) to be doing - it's perfectly possible to find the notion of an MIS giving cash to a Local Authority (or other public body) distasteful whilst simultaneously finding the corporate mud-slinging of another MIS (who already has a pretty bad reputation PR wise, given their history) also distasteful. This is not an 'either/or' situation.

 

Thanks Alistair, I do see where people are coming from on this and agree with some of the sentiment. I think you make a good point that it's not either/or so will take that on board. I think I arrived late to this party and had missed all the fun goings on prior to that!

 

To clarify the ESS side of things, the way the contracts are historically structured between the Schools, LAs and ESS is that the schools pay a fee to ESS and a certain amount of this covers a limited support element. By the local authorities taking on the role of support, this amount that has been charged to the school is passed on to the local authority in the form of a rebate to ensure that the schools aren't paying twice. Arbor does the same but it also provides what it terms a 'profit share' on top for schools that are referred to Arbor by the LA.

 

Bromcom also used to rebate in the same way as ESS in cases where schools bought directly from Bromcom as the support element was being billed to the school as part of the SaaS fee. So this money was then passed on to a support team if they later took on support, again to ensure the school wasn't paying twice. Support teams tend to price their services based on offsetting the amount received through this process. However, when Bromcom was purchased at LA level, it's generally procured as product only so there's no rebate for support fees. Likewise, these days if you buy Bromcom in conjunction with a support team, there is no rebate, a discount is just applied so that the school pay less and the support centre's fees are more transparent.

[Damon]

👀

* Has a Bromcom email address

* Has dozens of pages/blogs on Bromcom websites

* Has been their "Marketing Manager"

* Has been their "Product Owner for UI/UX"

* Has worked on Bromcom stalls at Bett/London Acadmies etc

👀

 

For what it's worth, In the same timeline as the above:

 

 

• Created an Arbor product and did the marketing and promotion (still active)
  
• Created several SIMS products and did the marketing and promotion (still active)
  
• 3rd line SIMS tech (still active)
  
• Former SIMS User group chair for years
  
• etc
  

 

So I also have a stake in the success of other MIS' too. I appreciate it's different to a perspective from a school though. After a discussion with mods years ago I put the statement in my sig to try and make people aware of what I do but I'm open to amending it if required.

[CAM]

I swung by the forum to check a (unrelated) PM and find my old haunt with a mudslinging sticky at the top of it. Can people take their corporate wars and personal vendettas somewhere private as it hardly looks professional and is well against the spirit of the MIS forum. We should be working together to share information on using MIS effectively schools, not trying to tear each other apart.

[dmj]

I swung by the forum to check a (unrelated) PM and find my old haunt with a mudslinging sticky at the top of it. Can people take their corporate wars and personal vendettas somewhere private as it hardly looks professional and is well against the spirit of the MIS forum. We should be working together to share information on using MIS effectively schools, not trying to tear each other apart.

 

yeah. But the mudslingers are sponsoring the forum.