e_g_r Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 1200 kids school in need of new sims server. Data Base under 4Gb. Any recomendations on spec for server?
Michael Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Sims runs on SQL 2005 and SQL runs better with more memory, so 2GB to 3GB is what I would recommend. I'd also recommend you buy a server either with a Core 2 Duo or Xeon as these will have multiple cores. SQL 2005 Standard makes good use of this and will speed things up. All new servers should come with gigabit ethernet adapters to maximise network throughput. I'd also recommend at least a 100GB hard drive to ensure you have enough space now and for the next few years. And last but not least, check out what warranty you can get. The longer the better in the event the server fails.
powdarrmonkey Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 For a SQL server I would go with Michael's spec but make the memory at lease 4Gb. SQL performs sooo much better from the 4Gb threshold upwards.
Domino Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 RAID for data, a seperate drive for OS. go for 2 x dual core processors if you can. If it's for sensitive data a backup tape seperate to the rest of you data would be advisable (LTO3?) Also two gigabit ethernet ports if your switches support port-teaming to allow for greater throughput - as this is a mission-critical server.
FN-GM Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 1200 kids school in need of new sims server. Data Base under 4Gb. Any recomendations on spec for server? Hi Have a word with EDIT, a few months ago they had an ideal server from dell and it was pretty cheap apparently.
dhicks Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 1200 kids school in need of new sims server. Data Base under 4Gb. Any recommendations on spec for server? Get a machine with a stack of RAM and assign a RAM disk as the database's storage. If the database is less than 4GB then I bet a machine with 8GB would do nicely, which isn't even expensive these days, although something with a bit more for future expansion would probably be a good idea. Get the machine a decent dedicated UPS so you have enough time to shutdown properly and write RAM to disk in case of a power outage. Could also see about a separate terminal services server for people to run the SIMS client from. -- David Hicks
DMcCoy Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Get a machine with a stack of RAM and assign a RAM disk as the database's storage. If the database is less than 4GB then I bet a machine with 8GB would do nicely, which isn't even expensive these days, although something with a bit more for future expansion would probably be a good idea. Get the machine a decent dedicated UPS so you have enough time to shutdown properly and write RAM to disk in case of a power outage. Could also see about a separate terminal services server for people to run the SIMS client from. -- David Hicks And what benefit will this provide precisely? Apart from needing a non supported version on windows (64 bit) and commercial ram disk software. With the number of users and transactions going on in schools I see no benefit, I doubt even teaming NICs will make any difference. For now a 4GB RAM, dual core cpu and raid 1 or 5 storage system of 100GB or more should be perfectly fine.
FN-GM Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 I have to agree, there is no point going over 4 because of the 32bit limitations and SIMS doesn't work properly with x64
maniac Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 As the MIS system is possibly the most vital system in a school these days (second only to the Domain controller) I'd go for good redundancy. Redundant PSU and duel NICs for redundancy (not speed.) For storage I'd opt for 4 drives setup in 2 x RAID 1 systems. That's a pair of drives for the OS and programs, and a second pair of drives to hold the SQL data. A Higher spec duel core CPU should be fine, and I'd go for 4GB of decent RAM as it's pretty affordable. Personally I'd build all this based on an HP DL380, as in my experience they are some of the most reliable servers I've ever had the fortune to work with, and they come with a whole host of good monitoring utilities so you can always be sure of being alerted early if there's a problem with your SIMS server. This won't be the cheapest, but it will be one of the better setups you could choose. Mike
dhicks Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 And what benefit will this provide precisely? Apart from needing a non supported version on windows (64 bit) and commercial ram disk software. I guess I wasn't being entirely serious at the time, but... it should be doable - have your system run 64-bit Linux, have 32-bit Windows as a VM and have Linux handle the RAM disk. RAM these days is so cheap compared to a few years ago, it seems a shame not to use it... Okay, if not a RAM disk, how do you convince SQL Server that it can use all the available RAM as a cache? -- David Hicks
DMcCoy Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 I guess I wasn't being entirely serious at the time, but... it should be doable - have your system run 64-bit Linux, have 32-bit Windows as a VM and have Linux handle the RAM disk. RAM these days is so cheap compared to a few years ago, it seems a shame not to use it... Okay, if not a RAM disk, how do you convince SQL Server that it can use all the available RAM as a cache? -- David Hicks Buy it. 32 bit sql server standard and above will use more than 4GB on 2003 32 bit Enterprise or above. Sql express will only use 1GB max and a single core. 1
dhicks Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 32 bit sql server standard and above will use more than 4GB on 2003 32 bit Enterprise or above. Sql express will only use 1GB max and a single core. Ah! Good to know, thanks. -- David Hicks
bossman Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 We Have Terminal Services 64bit windows 2003R2 running Sims.net with SQL Enterprise server backend, the only problems we have at the moment which should be sorted by the end of this year is T4 which will be redundant hopefully. With 8Gb Ram it really rocks, very very quick and stable. Dell Power edge 2950 dual Quadcore intel 2.8Ghz, 8 Gb Ram, with dual nics and power, raid 1 for redundancy and speed. Only problem we have now is the teachers love the speed of it that much they prefer to use this than fat client with Sims as it is approx 10 seconds faster.
dhicks Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 We Have Terminal Services 64bit windows 2003R2 running Sims.net with SQL Enterprise server backend All on the one machine? I'd like to offer SIMS over Terminal Services, as that seems like the sensible & secure way to run it, but our current SIMS server is a dual-core, 4GB of RAM machine. I was planning to make that machine into a VM, move it to one of our VM servers, then use that original machine as a dedicated TS server - but you reckon it works okay with SIMS on the same machine as Terminal Services? -- David Hicks
nicholab Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Our new database server has 8GB of RAM the 4GB upgrade kit only cost about £130.
matt40k Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 See if LEA can offer central hosted SIMS. If you've got a server, don't bother, sounds like you need to wait until the end of your rolling cycle David. Unless the clients needs upgrading
dhicks Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 See if LEA can offer central hosted SIMS. We're a private school, so we don't have an LEA. If you've got a server, don't bother, sounds like you need to wait until the end of your rolling cycle We don't have one of those, either. No, I was just wondering if it was a good idea to run the SIMS server on the same machine that would be doing terminal services, but looking at the machine it turns out it only actually has 2GB of RAM (cheap motherboard bought off eBay last year that can only take 2GB of RAM total, unless you buy more expensive fancy RAM). Think I'll definitely be moving the SIMS server to a VM, then I'll see if that spare server can do TS (with 2GB of RAM, might be pushing it a bit). -- David Hicks
matt40k Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 You don't have a replace\upgrade plan for computers? So do you do it on a per problem bases?
ahuxham Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 As stated above, the more cores the merrier, regards hard-drives, something SAS (Serial Attached SCSI) is what you should got for. Our Facility, ePortal server has SAS 15k RPM drives, and performs faultlessly, specially with everyone writing, reading to the server!
dhicks Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 You don't have a replace\upgrade plan for computers? So do you do it on a per problem bases? I aim to simply have all our servers operate as virtual machines, all mirrored between one another, so if one server breaks then other servers can take over the running of server's VMs. Ideally all our server hardware would be managed as an abstracted "cloud" and I wouldn't know or care what exactly what hardware was installed, but realistically we only have enough money to buy bits and pieces of hardware here and there throughout the year. Hence I've been tending to buy those Dell £99 special offer machines - we now have about five of those, they're the mainstay of our highly sophisticated server computing architecture :-) Seriously, though, the kinds of systems you see in schools are annoyingly behind the cutting-edge stuff you hear about being done in other places. Web application developers are now getting to the stage where they're having to develop new software and techniques to manage the thousands of distributed VMs that make up modern web-based applications, and we're still plunking away at getting some crusty old database software so it can actually be accessed from where users want to be able to use it from! -- David Hicks
matt40k Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 How much does that cost? Wonder what the performance is compared to a hardware raid 4x SATA-2 10K RAID-10 Still depends on Read\Write, I assume RAID-10 would be wasted as you would do more read then writes so RAID-5 would be better. I suppose you could look at hard drive with large caches. Solid state hard drives would be THE best for SIMS. Not that I could say, spend £1000+ on a RAID-1 Solid state drive array, only have like 32gb space too. Might as well look at running SIMS in your RAM!! Would take a while to load \ shutdown tho.
dhicks Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Might as well look at running SIMS in your RAM!! Ah ha! We agree! -- David Hicks
matt40k Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Ah ha! We agree! -- David Hicks NEVER!!! Lol Just looked up the price of a 32gb SSD hdd, it's £110 inc vat and p&p There was a program that DID allow you to create a drive in your RAM. The guy stopped dev when 2000 was released. No-one had enough ram to make it worth while. His idea was to load the ENTIRE OS and apps into it. Shame really, Linux can fit into 1gb of ram
dhicks Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 His idea was to load the ENTIRE OS and apps into it. My idea exactly - just run Windows with SIMS as a VM under Linux, have Linux handle the RAM disk part of things. -- David Hicks
kimclayton Posted November 6, 2008 Posted November 6, 2008 hi, just a quick note if you are going Gb Lan then avoid Broadcom chipset like the plague. We have spent days in the past trying to trackdown performance issues on our network only to find it was being caused by the Broadcom TOE. This is well documented on the web. regards kim
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