Is it still worth it?

[somabc]

Fair enough, why don't you post up your CV (omitting obvious personal info) on either here or at Employment & Jobs - CertForums

[dhicks]

What bit don't you get. I CANNOT GET A JOB!!!!!!!!!! I cannot even get one stacking shelves because I'm over qualified. Have been told this by 2 local supermarkets. Sorry But I'm really getting fed up now.

 

You could try for cleaning jobs at supermarkets rather than stacking shelves - cleaning in supermarkets tends to be done by contracting firms, who are less bothered about who exactly is applying for a job. Also the hours tend to be a bit crummy (very early AM starts), so there tend to be vacancies quite often.

 

Around Ramsgate, is there any seasonal fruit-picking work around now? There might be an official type job, or there might well be work-a-day-get-paid-cash kind of jobs.

 

--

David Hicks

[Midget]

what about waitering? i hear theyre not getting minimum wage these days.

[Guest richard]

As requested by somabc I have attached a copy of my CV.

 

I have looked at cleaning jobs, fruit picking etc but with no luck. The problem is that we have a large immigrant population who are willing to does these jobs for less money.

CV.doc

[Midget]

that CV needs work. Should be no longer than 2 pages, you don't need to go into so much detail about what happened between 91 and 99 as they dont really care, and you need a much better layout

[Guest richard]

that CV needs work. Should be no longer than 2 pages, you don't need to go into so much detail about what happened between 91 and 99 as they dont really care, and you need a much better layout

 

Well that's interesting seeing as it was put together with help from a Recruitment Manager with over 20 years experience. I showed her my first CV which was just under 2 pages long and she threw it in the bin.

[torledo]

@richard

 

I don't know what the employment market is like where you are, but even if IT or IT-related jobs are a bit thin on the ground or if there's a lot of competition, i don't see any reason why you shouldn't keep plugging away - you really don't need to be looking at shelf stacking. (i understand the need to pay bills, but i'm sure you can get something that's not a complete u-turn from IT)

 

As midget says the CV needs a lot work.....tidy it up, customzie the cv based on the types of jobs your applying for. Wouldn't surprise me that the agency you've signed up with are shite....if your not a programmer or a consultant they don't want to know i suspect is the case with a lot of these so called IT agencies. But persist with as many methods of looking for work as possible...local rag, online, the career pages of specific companies (local council for instance). What you have to be is really super proactive and beligerant....don't overlook the detail and presentation of things like application forms, covering letters, CV's....even if it takes dozens of posted forms and cv's and dozens of online form filling - if you persist you'll get something. There's no such thing as an unemployable IT person. Unless if your a VAX engineer looking for work in ramsgate that is.

 

You've explained your brief hiatus from IT, i don't think that will count against you. I had sod all recent experience when i applied for my last job....who your going up against my be the stumbling block, but if your prepared to look at lower paid IT work you're bound to get something - being overqualified may be an issue, but i'm sure someones willing to offer you an interview - and at interview stage you can explain your motivations.

 

Good luck, but you won't need it. The key is to believe in yourself, be really good at selling yourself and you'll see there will be people who will want to take you on. If you can't communicate in that positive way, then you don't deserve a job.

Edited July 31, 2008 by torledo

[torledo]

Well that's interesting seeing as it was put together with help from a Recruitment Manager with over 20 years experience. I showed her my first CV which was just under 2 pages long and she threw it in the bin.

 

The person who helped you put that CV together...tell me, who were they recuiting...polish strawberry pickers ?

 

If that CV lands on my desk it goes in the bin, as a busy manager with lots of calls to make and a pub lunch to get through [j/k] i don't have time to be arsing about trying to 'work out' someones CV. Do yourself a favour and do a complete rewrite and ffs make the recruiters job less difficult....make it easy for them to peruse your CV....'cos that's all they'll be doing - perusing.

 

I mean, that third page is just a complete waste of space....literally. This whole CV should be 3 pages form so called recruiters is total balls. You're not going for a job as CEO of a NHS trust, you're trying to get back in the game. 2 pages, clearly defined sections of Employment, Education, Training/Certs - most recent first please and account for any gaps preferably in a covering letter. Stop with all this hobbies and interests crap...mission statement thingy is optional if you've got the space. But don't go over 2 pages just to get a poxy 'this is me' section in.

Edited July 31, 2008 by torledo

[Midget]

That was put together by a recruiter? They'll have been setting you up as a 2nd candidate from the beginning then. I'd put it in the bin as well.

 

The problem with jobs you are over qualified for is that they think (usually quite rightly) you'll jump ship as soon as a better job comes along.

[KarlGoddard]

As requested by somabc I have attached a copy of my CV.

 

I have looked at cleaning jobs, fruit picking etc but with no luck. The problem is that we have a large immigrant population who are willing to does these jobs for less money.

 

to be honest you'd be 'lucky' to get jobs like that...

 

any employer will look at your cv and realise that the job you're applying for is a stop gap job and that you'll bugger off as soon as you get a job in your own field.

 

you are in a no win situation, I'm afraid. The longer you're on job seekers the more desperate you become to get a job and that desperation can either skew your though on which jobs to go for or worse still come across badly in an interview.

 

I was in *exactly* the same situation as you - i applied for every job going - security guard, admin assistant, groundsman, even in the laundry at the local hospital if I got an interview, I was 'lucky' then out of the blue a primary I used to work for wrote to me and said that my old job was back up for grabs and would I like it back - 1 in a 1000 chance i know but don't give up hope.

 

All the best mate!

[dhicks]

Possible idea: just seen an advert (at the top if this page it was, actually) for some company called "Renta-Nerd":

 

Renta Nerd | Comming Soon

 

And there must be plenty of other similar companies out there by now (mustn't there? Surely...). Looks like they do PC support by remote connection - I imagine if you have a computer and Internet connection at home you might be able to get a work-from-home type job through them or someone similar.

 

--

David Hicks

[Guest richard]

The person who helped you put that CV together...tell me, who were they recuiting...polish strawberry pickers ?

 

If that CV lands on my desk it goes in the bin, as a busy manager with lots of calls to make and a pub lunch to get through

 

Thank your comments. I take it from them that you read peoples CV's with your head shoved up your own backside. The person in question is a good friend of mine and I value their judgement over yours. I realise now why I was glad to get out of education as you have not changed at all and still want to launch personal attacks on myself and my friends.

[somabc]

Thank your comments. I take it from them that you read peoples CV's with your head shoved up your own backside. The person in question is a good friend of mine and I value their judgement over yours. I realise now why I was glad to get out of education as you have not changed at all and still want to launch personal attacks on myself and my friends.

 

Oh dear, oh dear.

 

Trust me the people on this thread have supplied their constructive view of your CV and you would be better placed if you were to follow their advice. You have not had any luck with this CV, it is time to try something else. Nobody is trying to personally attack you or you friend they are only trying to be helpful.

 

The fact is this CV is not good enough to land you a post, and I agree with the other posters that it would be thrown out. The layout is not good, you spend too much time talking about your personal life, employers really do not care. They want 2 sheets that sums up what your about that is all.

 

I can see that you may have had a hard time in the past but it does you no favours to rush into belligerent statements like those above, if you have this attitude in an interview you will be shown the door quick smart.

 

You need to redo your CV with better presentation, less personal background (save it for the interview) more focus on your previous jobs and what you achieved. Then be relaxed and confident at the interview.

 

You are welcome to adapt the two designs attached.

 

Best of Luck.

untitled.doc

untitled 2.doc

Edited July 31, 2008 by somabc

[torledo]

Thank your comments. I take it from them that you read peoples CV's with your head shoved up your own backside. The person in question is a good friend of mine and I value their judgement over yours. I realise now why I was glad to get out of education as you have not changed at all and still want to launch personal attacks on myself and my friends.

 

All i'm saying richard is that i don't think your friend gave you very good advice in tailoring your CV for the jobs that your applying for.....a highly technical role may require such elaboration in a CV....but for most positions a CV just needs to highlight key skills and experiences. Short and to the point bullet points.

 

We've advertised for relatively low paid positions in the past and have been inundated with application forms and covering letters from people with a very diverse range of skills and experiences. It ends up being a whole team effort to look through each and every CV, and in many instances that manpower isn't available so the CVs that don't cut the mustard do go in the bin..... or at best these CV's are put on the backburner.

 

I see no reason why your getting so exasperated with me Rich ? Your a guy who wears his heart on his sleeve, and unfortunately if it's that easy to push your buttons when your CV is critiqued, how on earth are you going to deal with an interview situation...recruiters have been known to be quite blunt with questions ? And while it may be all sweetness and light in an interview at a school with a head and ICT coordinator - you will set alarm bells ringing if you come out as defensive as you tend to do on here.....

 

Rich, crap like not valuing my judgement is fine....you can take it or leave it...i'm not going to not offer you advice or post my opinions for fear of treading on eggshells, but don't forget i'm not the one struggling for work. I've been quite good/lucky at finding jobs despite not ticking all the boxes - i've encountered both inexperienced and overqualified....all i can say is that i tried my best to pass on some of the things that i found when i was job hunting. You can dismiss them if you want because they're coming from me, but do yourself a favour and listen some of the other advise from the likes of midge.

[Midget]

Thank your comments. I take it from them that you read peoples CV's with your head shoved up your own backside. The person in question is a good friend of mine and I value their judgement over yours. I realise now why I was glad to get out of education as you have not changed at all and still want to launch personal attacks on myself and my friends.

 

sweet zombie jesus

 

you didnt even tell us the recruiter was a friend so it was hardly a personal attack on your friend.

 

I no longer work in EduIT, but in the private sector as an IT Manager, and several of us gave a poor review of that CV so my only assumption is that you have a personal gripe against toledo.

[torledo]

Re the issue of training/certs....

 

it used to be that 6 months on the dole and you'd be automatically entitled to a place on a New Deal scheme.....i went through the same thing 10 years ago, six months signing on and then followed a friend who'd done the same thing onto a C programming course at a local provider as part of New Deal.

6 weeks the C programming was scheduled for and then a further 6 weeks C++ from what i remember....dropped out of it after a couple of weeks as i'd decided to apply to go to uni instead. C was just not my bag

 

another friend did a Windows NT4 training scheme as part of his New Deal [lucky git]....this was around 1997. And i new other people who did PC Servicing and Repair.

 

Not sure what the situation is today, but it wouldn't surprise me if the CCNA, A+ and MCTS were options for the New Deal at local colleges/training providers. The responses given to Richard by the jobcentre advisors is total hogwash......they can't get away with providing crap advice like that, not with the funding and subsidy given to New Deal to get people off work. Where do you think colleges get all these people doing IT courses like the MCSA and CCNA > - they're on JSA and many are totally unsuitable for the courses, but they have to do something, and presumable they don't fancy getting their hands dirty on plastering courses. If your on JSA and your motivated and know the industry it's a big advantage when it comes to getting on a training course as opposed to being an individual who has to fund the training themselves through these rip-off training loans.

 

Also, when your on a benefit like JSA, CCNA academy courses which run over the year or over a term are normally free, as are most other college courses. You'd have to pay for the cert or exam fee....but that's a pittance compared to the full cost of some of these courses. Add in the cost of the ciscopress books and it's affordable even for someone on JSA....you don't need to be looking at Career Development Loans when your on JSA - practically everything is available for free....CDL's are primarily for career changers who aren't on qualifying benefits.

[Midget]

I agree that the CCNA is the best way to regaining a network infastructure job with a company who know what it is. MCSE is another but it'd be a waste of money atm due to the new course for Vista/2008 being out soon therefore will be degraded instantly.

[torledo]

I agree that the CCNA is the best way to regaining a network infastructure job with a company who know what it is. MCSE is another but it'd be a waste of money atm due to the new course for Vista/2008 being out soon therefore will be degraded instantly.

 

Agree. I would defintely focus on W2k8 and gaining one of the MCITP certifications....the base MCITP only requires 3 exams whereas the old MCSA for 2000/2k3 required four from what i remember. The MCSE used to require 7 exams or a similarly ridiculous number, whereas the MCITP Ent. Admin requires only 4.

[dhicks]

What bit don't you get. I CANNOT GET A JOB!!!!!!!!!!

 

Another thought: you might do better off hunting for a job in Canterbury - certainly sounds as though the job centre there might be worth a try, they might be able to advise you a bit different from the one in Ramsgate (i.e. they might simply be more used to dealing with people with your kinds of qualifications, whereas up in Ramsgate they might be more used to dealing with people looking for different work). There's also a whole stack of agencies along the high street and in the couple of roads parallel to it. Agencies might want your CV in a particular format, you might want to check with them for some examples.

 

Also: isn't there a great big power plant just up the road from you? I don't know exactly what qualifications the power industry is looking for these days, but I'm guessing (judging by all the palaver on the news this morning about nuclear power and such) that they're recruiting, might be the kind of industry to aim for.

 

--

David Hicks

[Midget]

I was advised by my Dad a nuclear and chemical engineer that if I couldn't get a job in the IT Sector (when I was looking for work for 8months) then go to uni and retrain in a nuclear field as there will be a raft of new jobs coming soon.

[tmcd35]

Just read through this thread with great interest. I am today officially starting my great search for my next role - whatever it maybe. IMHO the OP attitude seems a little off (which never helps in the search for work), but a do sympathise with his dilemma.

 

I thought I'd comment here on the general conundrum that is the UK IT sector at the moment. As an industry we appear to have locked ourselves in a experience/qualifications paradox. Getting work in IT seems to be getting harder and harder as employers demand Degrees, MSCE's, Cisco, Exchange and 7+ years on the job experience for a £18k a year post changing back-up tape media!

 

Add to this that 90% of jobs in this industry appear to be London based and you then need to factor in the costs of commuting before you apply for the one job that sounds right.

 

For my part I have a list of website that I regularly check - local county council, neighbouring county council, regional daily newspaper (better than buying it each week), edugeek, SpecialAgent, reed, monster, BCS.

 

I have to admit I, with some experience and a degree, am as disheartened as the OP with the number of jobs that match my wage/work/location ratio. For my part Exchange and Cisco experience and ITIL qualifications appear to be the main stumbling blocks. Having just done a VMWare course I can't currently afford to retrain in any of these three fields

[Midget]

Why would you need to do an exchange course? what's so difficult about exchange?

 

A year long nightschool Cisco course is highly recommended by me to get greater understanding of networking.

 

The main problem with IT in the UK is CompuTeach and all the other "no experiance? need a job? retrain in IT and get a £30kpa job" companies pumping out loads of people with no knowledge leading to employers requesting 7+ years experiance and real qualifications (degree, cisco, MS, RedHat etc) instead of a CompuTeach ICanDoComputersMe Diploma.

[dhicks]

Getting work in IT seems to be getting harder and harder as employers demand Degrees, MSCE's, Cisco, Exchange and 7+ years on the job experience for a £18k a year post changing back-up tape media!

 

Okay, so in people's opinion, what qualifications/certifications offer the best "return on investment", if you like - what's the best exam or course to spend your money on if you're like the original poster and somewhat strapped for cash? And let's get back to what was basically his original question: is "the IT industry" still worth the bother, or if you want to earn money are you better off doing something else?

 

It strikes me that you might do just as well to skip the looking-for-a-job step and instead set yourself up as a consultant or small business and go straight to the paid-by-the-hour consultancy business. Being a consultant seems to mainly involve convincing management types to hand over money, I've met some really thick consultants in the past who couldn't actually do anything much useful.

 

--

David Hicks

[torledo]

Infrastructure jobs tend to be jack-of-all-trades, and/or not fantastically well paid. So when a company advertises for a MCSE and/or CCNA, they know they can offer 30k odd and get people with Exchange, ISA, w2k3, cisco etc. experience and training. And there are loads of them about, irrespective of the numbers doing intensive MCSA and CCNA courses for career-changers and the unemployed.

 

To stand out you really either need a wealth of experience and preferably experience on big implentations.

 

Whereas if your skills sets are more focused in particular areas, you'd still need that big project experience, but you wouldn't need such a diverse range of skillsets.

 

VMware is one of those areas that will continue to be in demand, but many VMware roles need that experience with the various server operating systems, DBMS, and Email systems aswell as SANs becuase they are not technology islands. In a big org, with dedicated teams for these different connected parts you could concentrate on being a VMware specialist....but most jobs want more all round skills from their VMWare engineers. Same goes for citrix, you could be a citrix specialist because of the scale of the citrix implementation...but most orgs want skills in other areas for positions that require citrix expertise.

 

Most of the specialist jobs are down south, but there are specialism in the public sector and at locations outside london. My advise is to get in somewhere where you can be trained and get experienced in a particular specialism. I personally want to avoid being a general IS bod, i want to do something more targeted where i can focus all my attentions rather than being pulled in all sorts of different directions....my not be as fun, but better for the stress levels and potentially a good earner.

[strawberry]

Okay, so in people's opinion, what qualifications/certifications offer the best "return on investment", if you like - what's the best exam or course to spend your money on if you're like the original poster and somewhat strapped for cash? And let's get back to what was basically his original question: is "the IT industry" still worth the bother, or if you want to earn money are you better off doing something else?

 

It strikes me that you might do just as well to skip the looking-for-a-job step and instead set yourself up as a consultant or small business and go straight to the paid-by-the-hour consultancy business. Being a consultant seems to mainly involve convincing management types to hand over money, I've met some really thick consultants in the past who couldn't actually do anything much useful.

 

--

David Hicks

 

it takes time, but assuming each course is around £110 (book + exam) i'd recommend doing the mcsa.