Internet Failover

[chekmate1984]

Hi all

 

I have been assigned task to sort out a internet failover as move to the cloud.

 

The issue we have is we use fortinet for our firewall/filtering

 

We have LGFL internet connected to the firewall we also have a virgin line (no idea why previous IT chose virgin when lgfl is virgin too!)

 

But LGFL needs its own DNS in firewall/DNS server and if we go via BT or virgin they would need 8.8.8.8

 

So it will have to be a manual change on firewall and the dns server and by time they all change over there woudve been some down time. We want this seamless so users wont notice ideally!

 

Has anyone encountered this and setup a failover with LGFL?

 

I know LGFL are bringing in community fibre but not sure that will help if LGFLs network goes down both lines would be down unless they complelety separate system, separate building etc

[PaddyNewman]

I can probably help if you want to PM me, I can get a teams call together?

[PotNoodleTech]

The problem with failover is that if it's all going back to the same exchange which is likely then you effectively don't have failover.

 

As proven by the power cut yesterday evening which looks like it took out our local exchange - we lost power totally to the whole village, but 5 other secondary's and 20 primaries lost their internet too even though they were miles away from us where the power cut actually was?

 

The only other time we lost internet was when a gardener cut through the internet link with a hedge trimmer. Again - your multiple links going back to the exchange through the same underground pipework are both gonna go down so no redundancy in that scenario either.

[Wave9_Lee]

You can buy what's called RO2 for leased lines, which guarantee physically separate ducts and fibre, different routes into the school, and utilise 2 different exchnages, but it's usually quite expensive. You have to weigh up the risk/cost. What is the plan for 1/4/8 hour downtime, or several days?

 

Taking 2 separate products/technologies would help - i.e Openreach leased line + SOGEA, same exchange, but likely different routes/ducts back to the exchange. Use 2 different ISPs for additional resilience. If you can get VMB+Openreach = good. If an Alt-net is available, that can help. 5G is becoming more effective as a backup as it's not reliant on local duct or fibre at all.

 

The other point stands tho, if it all ends up in the same infrastructure/datacentre, you're reliant on the supplier having very robust failover within their service platform.

[DGardiner]

buy a starlink from a reseller, was speaking to one the other day and i can be turned on an off as required (30day contract) or left online ready at your cost.

 

our plan is to either have one in each geographic location for our schools and run it to where is required - with a smoothwall s2 that i have spare. - added benefit of taking internet to residentials/weird places if we need to

[PotNoodleTech]

buy a starlink from a reseller, was speaking to one the other day and i can be turned on an off as required (30day contract) or left online ready at your cost.

 

our plan is to either have one in each geographic location for our schools and run it to where is required - with a smoothwall s2 that i have spare. - added benefit of taking internet to residentials/weird places if we need to

 

That is a darned interesting idea - I am well out of touch with starlink etc. Time to open youtube!!

[DGardiner]

That is a darned interesting idea - I am well out of touch with starlink etc. Time to open youtube!!

Yeah, im awaiting my quotes now for a few options. I can share the pricing/solution if people are interested.

[PaddyNewman]

I use Starlink daily and its great if you aren't overpopulated there and you have very clear sky access.

[pablo007]

You have to weigh up the risk/cost.

 

This is the bit DFE have not taken into consideration when mandating two separate lines, add the cost of the fact the separate line needs to be filtered for the students and staff its a nonsense.

[Wave9_Lee]

Fair point about budgets, but the second line doesn't need to be too expensive. We provision the backup line as active, so it can be used alongside the main connection, meaning it's not dead money at least. We also filter on-premise, so no issue with the second point.

 

Appreciate that other services can differ..

[pastymaster]

Yeah, im awaiting my quotes now for a few options. I can share the pricing/solution if people are interested.

 

How far did you get with this one please?

 

I'm interested in purchasing the ROAM setup as a backup for 3 different buildings. My thinking is that we can move it between schools in the event of an outage. The fact that the subscription can be paused too is really quite appealing.

[DGardiner]

How far did you get with this one please?

 

I'm interested in purchasing the ROAM setup as a backup for 3 different buildings. My thinking is that we can move it between schools in the event of an outage. The fact that the subscription can be paused too is really quite appealing.

 

We havent commited to the purchase yet but i got a quote back from a company that offered 30d contracts with stop/start as needed. All we needed to do was ring them with the what 3 words the school was in and it would instantly be available to use in that location.

 

problem was more the hardware... 3k for the dish, 1k+ for the pelecan case with integrated mounts - were probably still ognna make a move on it later this year once we have time to do so

Edited September 23, 2024 by DGardiner

[supportman]

Surely just a 5G modem with a sim card is enough as a temporary backup?

 

Would love a starlink as well, but buying on a credit card is very hard in schools for regular payments.

[DGardiner]

Surely just a 5G modem with a sim card is enough as a temporary backup?

 

Would love a starlink as well, but buying on a credit card is very hard in schools for regular payments.

 

go through a reseller and they can invoice

[robintech]

 

As proven by the power cut yesterday evening which looks like it took out our local exchange - we lost power totally to the whole village, but 5 other secondary's and 20 primaries lost their internet too even though they were miles away from us where the power cut actually was?

 

Hopefully Ofcom will make them install backup power at some point https://www.ofcom.org.uk/internet-based-services/network-security/resilience-guidance especially now with copper landlines going away

[pastymaster]

We havent commited to the purchase yet but i got a quote back from a company that offered 30d contracts with stop/start as needed. All we needed to do was ring them with the what 3 words the school was in and it would instantly be available to use in that location.

 

problem was more the hardware... 3k for the dish, 1k+ for the pelecan case with integrated mounts - were probably still ognna make a move on it later this year once we have time to do so

 

I do love the idea of pausing the contract. The ROAM kit is considerably cheaper but I can't imagine works half as well. I'm not sure how it would work for what I'm thinking though, I guess it would have to be outside the building, which probably isn't practical as a temporary solution.

[pastymaster]

Surely just a 5G modem with a sim card is enough as a temporary backup?

 

Would love a starlink as well, but buying on a credit card is very hard in schools for regular payments.

 

I'd love that but the signal isn't anywhere near good enough where I am. I can't get 4G in most places around schools!

[DGardiner]

I'd love that but the signal isn't anywhere near good enough where I am. I can't get 4G in most places around schools!

yep our rural schools a signal notspots at the best of times. so its a non starter

[Wave9_Lee]

It can be worth double checking external coverage - we deploy IP65 weatherproof 5G routers for this reason - can be situated on the wall facing the nearest mast to improve reception.

[supportman]

It can be worth double checking external coverage - we deploy IP65 weatherproof 5G routers for this reason - can be situated on the wall facing the nearest mast to improve reception.

 

I've been looking into this for something like this as a backup for our BT fibre and struggling to find a provider to install the cabling and router.

 

Do you offer a stand alone service or know of any company that does?

 

We don't mind installing it ourselves but finding the right hardware is proving difficult.

 

Only thing I've found so far are for campervans like the 5G now or Maxview companies.

Edited October 2, 2024 by supportman

[PotNoodleTech]

If it is essential to have a backup line and preferably excehange/fibre cable agnostic then I would be looking at starlink to be honest as it literally works strapped to a tent in the arctic circle. Not cheap, but cheap usually doesnt do the job well.

[LearnNetwork]

If it is essential to have a backup line and preferably excehange/fibre cable agnostic then I would be looking at starlink to be honest as it literally works strapped to a tent in the arctic circle. Not cheap, but cheap usually doesnt do the job well.

 

What about wireless radio (if available), would you still opt for starlink?

[Wave9_Lee]

I've been looking into this for something like this as a backup for our BT fibre and struggling to find a provider to install the cabling and router.

 

Do you offer a stand alone service or know of any company that does?

 

We don't mind installing it ourselves but finding the right hardware is proving difficult.

 

Only thing I've found so far are for campervans like the 5G now or Maxview companies.

 

No problem - drop me a PM or email with your contact details and I can send you some info. We tend to do both primary and secondary links so we can manage the failover seamlessly etc, but I'm sure we can sort something out

[supportman]

Has anyone found a Starlink schools provider yet? Quick google shows this company but I would rather go with someone proven.

 

https://www.chigwellsatellite.co.uk/

[PaddyNewman]

Any reason you don't want to just "DIY" - I can barely hold a screwdriver the right way and mines been fine for 2.5 years