Replace short throw projectors with TV screens

[leegcvcc]

Afternoon all,

 

Looking to replace some short throw projectors with standard large TVs and wondered if others were using this successfully.

 

Someone mentioned they'd visited a school a long time ago where they had 75" TVs with a perspex covering the whole TV. This protected the screen and also meant it could be written on using whiteboard markers.

 

They just used laptops with the TV as a secondary monitor and extended the screen. They didn't seem to have a problem with glare, but they didn't tell me if they did and it seemed like a standard set up to them.

 

Has anyone else tried this method? Quite cheap compared to the alternatives and my budget is getting hammered.

 

Appreciate any input

[Chris_Cook]

We've been doing this for a number of years now.

 

There is 3 main problems:

 

+ no commercial use warranty from most suppliers (Richer Sounds does do this for a cost)

+ Weaker screens - has only been a problem in a couple of rooms for us, but then we aren't as bad a school as some with behaviour.

+ No freeze function - this is the big one for our teachers as many struggle with extended desktop, as our rooms don't have the best layout without having dual screens on the teachers desktop.

 

Its probably worth looking at the cheaper options from Promethean and other suppliers as this can bring the cost down quite a bit. Still not as cheap, but not as bad as it was a year or 2 ago.

[leegcvcc]

We've been doing this for a number of years now.

 

There is 3 main problems:

 

+ no commercial use warranty from most suppliers (Richer Sounds does do this for a cost)

+ Weaker screens - has only been a problem in a couple of rooms for us, but then we aren't as bad a school as some with behaviour.

+ No freeze function - this is the big one for our teachers as many struggle with extended desktop, as our rooms don't have the best layout without having dual screens on the teachers desktop.

 

Its probably worth looking at the cheaper options from Promethean and other suppliers as this can bring the cost down quite a bit. Still not as cheap, but not as bad as it was a year or 2 ago.

 

Many thanks. Our staff are having to use the extend function with anything using HDMi, so most will be versed in doing it. I'll look at the promethean stuff, but it was crazy pricing for single purchases last time I looked. Much appreciated response 👍

[psydii]

The return of interactivity after a ten year absence has been welcomed here. Those pushing for non-interactive solutions "because nobody is using interactivity" have either admitted they were wrong or left. The argument, though, we used was similar to the above... warranty and life time of the boards. I could point to cheap TV screens which failed after three/four years that had already been used in some locations instead of professional display screens (14 year and still running) around the school to help make a case.

 

Once you are looking at screens designed to be on 8/5 or 24/7 with 5 year next business day de/re-install warranties (because the classroom tech *must* be reliable), the interactivity basically is free.

[Colt_phil]

Not sure where you're based but if you're in the Merseyside area you're welcome to try out our BenQ screens. I can recommend an excellent reseller/installer too who always beats competitors pricing.

[Chris_Cook]

I certainly wouldn't cheap out on TVs if you go that route. Stick to one of the higher end makes like LG, Samsung or Philips. We've had some of the cheaper ones fail quite quickly, but only one of the better brands failed.

 

Large sheets of perspex arn't cheap (unless you have some Covid screens left over). They can also scratch easily. So worth factoring that in to your costs. You would also need to work out how to mount it in a way that doesn't cause the screen to overheat.

 

I've seen some of our staff write on the TVs directly. I wasn't best pleased, but it does seem to work, and none are broken from this so far. Not something I'd ever recommend though.

 

With Bett round the corner, its worth getting some of the staff who will use them to go and see the interactive screens in person. I think most manufacturers will do demos and bring screens along for free.

 

Its also worth looking at licensing costs for things like Smart Notebook and Active Inspire as these normally need to be plugged into hardware to be used.

 

I think it was the LX series of promethean I saw that had a lower cost. I've not seen them in person though, just on the AV Parts master website.

 

This is really a decision to be made with your teachers. As above, the IT depts / SLT view of what's being used day to day might not be as complete as we think it is. Its all a big trade off between features and reliability and cost.

[synaesthesia]

Doesn't take long before you're hitting the price of an interactive panel anyway - just over a grand gets you a sturdy, for purpose interactive from the Promethean LX range or Viewsonics without having to do any special work to make them workable. They're designed to be left on for long periods which TV's otherwise are not unless you pay for signage displays, which usually cost more than interactive ones anyway. Plus you can have interactivity and do away with what is frankly an absurd idea of writing on perspex with whiteboard markers! TCO is probably less by doing it properly.

[leegcvcc]

Doesn't take long before you're hitting the price of an interactive panel anyway - just over a grand gets you a sturdy, for purpose interactive from the Promethean LX range or Viewsonics without having to do any special work to make them workable. They're designed to be left on for long periods which TV's otherwise are not unless you pay for signage displays, which usually cost more than interactive ones anyway. Plus you can have interactivity and do away with what is frankly an absurd idea of writing on perspex with whiteboard markers! TCO is probably less by doing it properly.

Absurd??? 😁 My issue is TCO when budgets are so stretched is also quite hard to justify, morelike make it happen actually. I'm buying refurbed PCs to last 3 years instead of 6 years which I've never done in my life until now, but there's a need to get stuff replaced quicker than we have money for.

 

I will look at the better quality items as we've invested well in infrastructure and got the rewards to date, but it's challenging right now. Cheers for info

[synaesthesia]

Absurd??? 😁 My issue is TCO when budgets are so stretched is also quite hard to justify, morelike make it happen actually. I'm buying refurbed PCs to last 3 years instead of 6 years which I've never done in my life until now, but there's a need to get stuff replaced quicker than we have money for.

 

I will look at the better quality items as we've invested well in infrastructure and got the rewards to date, but it's challenging right now. Cheers for info

 

Get where you're coming from exactly - the absurdity is just that you'd be doing that work for effectively more money than just getting an interactive panel by the time you've added it all up, the fact you'd be replacing TV's twice as often as panels, spending more time resolving issues, power management and lack of network management options etc. The TCO is more relevant to the school than immediate purchase cost, and even then if you're in dire straights then many companies have leasing or lease to own options which may soften the blow.

 

Frankly financing in education is absurd, but a good business manager should be able to help get around that with a decent 3-5 year plan in place. And a crystal ball, lottery win and a change of government

Edited January 9, 2024 by synaesthesia

[SamanthaD]

Absurd??? 😁 My issue is TCO when budgets are so stretched is also quite hard to justify, morelike make it happen actually. I'm buying refurbed PCs to last 3 years instead of 6 years which I've never done in my life until now, but there's a need to get stuff replaced quicker than we have money for.

 

I will look at the better quality items as we've invested well in infrastructure and got the rewards to date, but it's challenging right now. Cheers for info

 

I think if TCO is your biggest concern (and I understand it is!) then my suggestion would be stick with short throw projection. Moving to displays is a big change and deserves a business case writing for the money as it's not just the screen but bracketry, cabling, power, making good on the mess left behind when the old projector and screen comes down.... all needs to be factored in somewhere. At least with the projection option all your infrastructure is there and you just need to replace the projector.

 

Also - and I say this a lot - don't be fooled into thinking a small screen is going to be enough. Size it correctly. Look up the AVIXA DISCAS tool, this is based on a lot of research and data for visual acuity. You can get a lot more image size for your cash with projection. It still has a place and sounds like it might make more sense.

[Oaktech]

We don't have a single projector in a classroom across 3 schools now.

 

We've been buying £950 BenQ 65" from VeryPC recently although we have Newline, Osborne Tango and Smart. The Smart GX are very competitive. They all have long commercial warranties.

 

We have also NEC commercial 55" devices from Evoke Tech for places which require non interactive screens. One school has replaced the hall projector with an ex-display 85" Legamaster screen, which is flown from a piece of truss.

[psydii]

Also - and I say this a lot - don't be fooled into thinking a small screen is going to be enough. Size it correctly. Look up the AVIXA DISCAS tool, this is based on a lot of research and data for visual acuity. You can get a lot more image size for your cash with projection. It still has a place and sounds like it might make more sense.

 

Absolutely. 86" image at 1080p is the sweet spot for most classrooms. If the classroom is 70m2+ even bigger would be better. 4K native just starts to making things complex with various chipset supportability issues with docks/second screens HDMI reliability.

 

For us there was no re-usability on the legacy IWB wiring as it was pre-HDMI, so that was not a factor. If redecoration is important, then sync up the work with classroom lifecycle work (carpets and painting etc), this was my preference, but not possible so the nice "new" classrooms are a bit scruffy where the last paint job and the new aspect ratio of the boards does not line up. You have to pick your battles.

[BenQ_Chris]

Hi leegcvcc,

 

Whilst TVs would on paper offer the cheapest solution, I would advise caution:

- non-commercial warranty

- standard glass strength

- lack of freeze function

- limited connectivity

- typically plastic chassis

- reflective screens

 

At BenQ we are able to offer value led screens (RE series), we are able to offer remote demos and depending on the opportunity we also offer on site in person demos. We will also be at Bett (stand NE10) where you'll be able to get hands on with the whole range. I've highlighted a few key areas that our screens have. If you don't want to use the interactivity that is fine, you can disable the touch function if needed.

 

With all the screens you get included at no extra cost:

Toughened, tempered reinforced glass

De/Re-install warranty (5 year upon registration)

Eyecare (low blue light and flicker free)

Anti-glare screens

EZWrite 6 whiteboard software built-in (with Windows and mac versions)

Network based casting solution (Instashare 2)

Cloud based device management

Cloud messaging broadcast system

Cloud based account system (allowing connection to cloud storage platforms)

 

If you'd like to know more or have any questions, just let me know.

[leegcvcc]

Thanks for all the input. Much appreciated. I have a meeting on Friday so will see how that goes. Often we just guess what teachers want or don't want so the input has been useful