[ms office - o365] Microsoft word permissions bug.

[Mrpower]

Hi All

I am not sure if this is a bug in SMB and APF networking or Microsoft Word. Staff have been reporting word docx that magically change their permissions after someone has open and saved the file. The permissions on the NAS Synology drive are correct for everyone read and write etc... But once a teacher edits a file and saves, they become read only to everyone, including the editor. Also I am talking Macs running at least three different versions of MS word. I usually change the permissions in the NAS drive then staff can edit again. Which is a pain. The newest version of MS word does not seem to be affected by the bug, just earlier versions. I have asked support at Synology to look at the NAS to see if the NAS is the culprit. But my tests seem to point to MS Word. I have tested using SMB and AFP to see if there is an issue there. My results showed no real networking bug to speak of.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Mrpower

[Koldov]

I can't actually help you as I never really got to the bottom of it, why it happens or if there is an actual solution, as I can't really put the time or resources into it as unfortunately we only have one Mac user (also unfortunately it is the Headteacher) who is running an old version of Word for Mac... The thing is it only happens randomly and under a specific set of circumstances, but it had something to do with the permissions set on the file by the Mac and the server/storage not being able to translate that to a SID or a mismatch in the permissions it gives it. I did some research and it appear it is a known issue (and has been for a very long time), but obviously not large enough in scale to warrant a fix... I think there was also an issue with it creating a lot of random folders as well as the permission issue. The other Windows users couldn't even see the file that had been edited on the Mac though.

 

Anyway it does appear to be similar to my issue (if not the same it might put you on the right track):

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mac/232284-office-mac-creating-random-folders-windows-server-share.html

 

and this:

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mac/224946-microsoft-word-mac-producing-strange-folders.html

 

Also, is this related to your previous post on a similar issue?

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/office-software/232894-ms-office-365-mac-read-only-files.html

Edited July 17, 2023 by Koldov

[Mrpower]

I can't actually help you as I never really got to the bottom of it, why it happens or if there is an actual solution, as I can't really put the time or resources into it as unfortunately we only have one Mac user (also unfortunately it is the Headteacher) who is running an old version of Word for Mac... The thing is it only happens randomly and under a specific set of circumstances, but it had something to do with the permissions set on the file by the Mac and the server/storage not being able to translate that to a SID or a mismatch in the permissions it gives it. I did some research and it appear it is a known issue (and has been for a very long time), but obviously not large enough in scale to warrant a fix... I think there was also an issue with it creating a lot of random folders as well as the permission issue. The other Windows users couldn't even see the file that had been edited on the Mac though.

 

Anyway it does appear to be similar to my issue (if not the same it might put you on the right track):

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mac/232284-office-mac-creating-random-folders-windows-server-share.html

 

and this:

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mac/224946-microsoft-word-mac-producing-strange-folders.html

 

Also, is this related to your previous post on a similar issue?

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/office-software/232894-ms-office-365-mac-read-only-files.html

 

Sorry, I was not sure if I had made a forum post about this bug or not. Thanks for reminding me.

I had tested this issue across three different computers and a separate server. What I discovered is across SMB mapped drives the problem pops its head up on a Mac running MS Word 16.66.7 under OSX 10.13. Both the Mac and windows 10 computer with latest MS word, were informed the file was read only. When I reconnected to the file on the OSX 10.13 computer through apple AFP networking protocol, then resaved the file, the read error disappeared. Hence why I am thinking the bug might have something to do with SMB and AFP, but if MS word is the problem. Well, I will have to regularly reset the permissions on the server. I will have a look at the above links.

[Koldov]

In my research iirc I did see various mentions of it happening with SMB and possibly not with AFP, however I think it wasn't seen as the answer, because AFP was being deprecated... Not sure if that's still the case?

 

I don't think there are any massive 'light bulb' moments in those threads (still worth a read) but also in my research there were a few mentions of giving the specific Mac user (not sure how that works with multiple users) full NTFS permissions on the ROOT of the drive!

 

I think there were two actual issues and they've got a bit mixed up in my mind, because one was definitely that the edited file was no longer able to be edited, even by the creator. Once that was sorted, I think the other issue was the creation of multiple folders every time the document was edited by the owner, creating multiple random folders (temp files/folders the OS should clean up once the document is closed), but both I think were caused by lack of permissions.

[Mrpower]

In my research iirc I did see various mentions of it happening with SMB and possibly not with AFP, however I think it wasn't seen as the answer, because AFP was being deprecated... Not sure if that's still the case?

 

I don't think there are any massive 'light bulb' moments in those threads (still worth a read) but also in my research there were a few mentions of giving the specific Mac user (not sure how that works with multiple users) full NTFS permissions on the ROOT of the drive!

 

I think there were two actual issues and they've got a bit mixed up in my mind, because one was definitely that the edited file was no longer able to be edited, even by the creator. Once that was sorted, I think the other issue was the creation of multiple folders every time the document was edited by the owner, creating multiple random folders (temp files/folders the OS should clean up once the document is closed), but both I think were caused by lack of permissions.

 

I having this issue on a Synology RS618 NAS. I posted a support ticket in their system. They, so far, have been as helpful as a chocolate tea pot. Their last communication they ask me to create a test folder with txt, doc, pages file and docx documents to see if this was happening with every type of file. I managed to trigger the bug by using AFP and MS word. Then I noticed if I copied the file off the server on to my desktop. the file became read write again, saved some changes, then moved the file back to the server. over wrote the original file, the file was then read write again.

For me the bug maybe with AFP (nope apple has not deprecated so far) and MS word (any version) creating temp files with read only bugs, which become the new file when saved. Temp files / folders seem to be culprits here.

I will still need to do some testing to see if the bug returns or workaround solves it in the short term.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Mrpower