Connect the Classroom Suppliers

[dcwhitworth]

I'm looking to select suppliers to run CtC projects, has anyone got any experiences they wish to share ? Good or bad are both appreciated. Thanks

[atcoates]

Softcat is taking very good care of us with our CTC projects.

[Fazza]

Stone Computers are worth speaking to, they've done countless schools and 100% know what they're talking about.

[Net-Ctrl]

We can do CtC projects - there are a fair few suppliers on here as well that will also be happy to help you out.

 

We can submit against Ruckus, Aruba and Cambium.

[RedwayNetworks_Michael]

As Net-Ctrl has mentioned we can also help with CTC projects as a network specialist

 

Also a couple of others here too. Keeping it within the forum

[localzuk]

Before you speak to suppliers, its probably worth figuring out a rough idea of how much the project will come to in total, and look at your school/Trust's finance regs. I found mine was well above our "need to tender, or use a pre-tendered framework agreement" limit here, so ended up using CPC Sourcing cloud to run the procurement - and that selected the companies for me.

 

All depends how you have to run the procurement really. As it is a school/Trust led process, with the DfE just paying you back, you have to follow your usual procurement processes.

 

We ended up selecting Ergo Computing via the CPC sourcing cloud process.

[dcwhitworth]

Before you speak to suppliers, its probably worth figuring out a rough idea of how much the project will come to in total, and look at your school/Trust's finance regs. I found mine was well above our "need to tender, or use a pre-tendered framework agreement" limit here, so ended up using CPC Sourcing cloud to run the procurement - and that selected the companies for me.

 

All depends how you have to run the procurement really. As it is a school/Trust led process, with the DfE just paying you back, you have to follow your usual procurement processes.

 

We ended up selecting Ergo Computing via the CPC sourcing cloud process.

 

Yes, the DfE have laid that out clearly in their instructions.

[StevieM]

We used the Everything ICT framework to make a Direct Award to Wave9. That saved us having to go through the whole 3-quote procurement process, while making sure the offer was value for money...and we got to use a supplier that we already knew and trusted.

[Net-Ctrl]

Everything ICT framework is one of the frameworks that the DfE is recommending to use for CtC bids. There is another. CCS perhaps. I can't remember.

 

For anyone wanting to go down the framework route - Net-Ctrl are on the Everything ICT framework after working with them last year to get approved/compliant.

[atcoates]

We used the Everything ICT framework to make a Direct Award to Wave9. That saved us having to go through the whole 3-quote procurement process, while making sure the offer was value for money...and we got to use a supplier that we already knew and trusted.

We've done the same with Sofcat on another DFE-approved framework.

[localzuk]

Everything ICT framework is one of the frameworks that the DfE is recommending to use for CtC bids. There is another. CCS perhaps. I can't remember.

The DfE's recommended frameworks for cloud related things are CPC, CCS and Everything Everywhere. They added CPC in December.

[atcoates]

@localzuk we were planning on using this one, is this not approved as well? https://www.procurementservices.co.uk/media-hub/news/6-dfe-approved-frameworks

[localzuk]

@localzuk we were planning on using this one, is this not approved as well? https://www.procurementservices.co.uk/media-hub/news/6-dfe-approved-frameworks

The DfE's framework finder is here - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/find-a-dfe-approved-framework-for-your-school

[Wave9_Lee]

We've delivered dozens of these projects, always happy to help. Key thing is to make sure your suppliers understand the process well, know the spec inside out, are able to design to the correct spec, (including cabling) and get the claim/proposal passed without too much time consuming back and forth with the DfE chap.

 

One thing I would say is that there's a bit of a chicken and egg situation developing around CTC projects in that to provide an accurate project price, including cabling etc then the supplier will need to do a survey. (also required for DfE claim)

The problem is there's only a small amount in the project funding for survey, and of course, is payable to only one supplier. So if you're asking for accurate bids from several suppliers, how can you get them to survey for zero charge if they're not going to win the business. There's a good chance you won't get many suppliers to bid. If you can secure zero charge surveys, then you're looking at 3/4/5 surveys of the same site.

 

If you know who you want to use, you can direct award through several frameworks, and the costs are generally benchmarked as DfE are across all Meraki, Aruba, Cambian costs on average. They wouldn't let an over-priced, overspecced solution pass, so 'good' if not 'best' value is assured. It saves you time and is less disruptive.

 

Alternatively, I think a good option is to speak to other schools and get an idea of who does a good job overall, shortlist them and then use a 'basket of goods' approach with an example spec etc. Then award to your preferred supplier, then the supplier can do a survey included in the project costs.

The intern

A direct award is my preferred approach but you'll have your own guidelines/rules. The internal procurement rules is an odd one, as it's not actually the school's money being spent..

[atcoates]

@Wave9_Lee we were hoping to use our current WIFI provider through the KCS framework. From the link that @localzuk provided (thank you) KCS is listed for hardware, but not networking. I want to be 100% sure I'm doing the right things for my schools and want to go the direct award route. I'd appreciate your input as you clearly both have a good understanding of this.

[RedwayNetworks_Michael]

We've delivered dozens of these projects, always happy to help. Key thing is to make sure your suppliers understand the process well, know the spec inside out, are able to design to the correct spec, (including cabling) and get the claim/proposal passed without too much time consuming back and forth with the DfE chap.

 

One thing I would say is that there's a bit of a chicken and egg situation developing around CTC projects in that to provide an accurate project price, including cabling etc then the supplier will need to do a survey. (also required for DfE claim)

The problem is there's only a small amount in the project funding for survey, and of course, is payable to only one supplier. So if you're asking for accurate bids from several suppliers, how can you get them to survey for zero charge if they're not going to win the business. There's a good chance you won't get many suppliers to bid. If you can secure zero charge surveys, then you're looking at 3/4/5 surveys of the same site.

 

If you know who you want to use, you can direct award through several frameworks, and the costs are generally benchmarked as DfE are across all Meraki, Aruba, Cambian costs on average. They wouldn't let an over-priced, overspecced solution pass, so 'good' if not 'best' value is assured. It saves you time and is less disruptive.

 

Alternatively, I think a good option is to speak to other schools and get an idea of who does a good job overall, shortlist them and then use a 'basket of goods' approach with an example spec etc. Then award to your preferred supplier, then the supplier can do a survey included in the project costs.

The intern

A direct award is my preferred approach but you'll have your own guidelines/rules. The internal procurement rules is an odd one, as it's not actually the school's money being spent..

 

I completely agree here and as you mention each school has different procurement requirements. However i have found that often when needing 3 quotes its caused delays trying to get other quotes. Which i do understand too as it is a cost to suppliers to send engineers to site too. Although this does get paid in the overall proposal it does still mean 2 suppliers are at a loss.

 

Often you could do a hardware exercise as this is much easier and some suppliers are happy to help with a quote to just help the schools get to the next stage. (This is where good relationships come in handy and favours can be asked)

 

Framework direct awards if possible do save all this hassle though but understand its not always possible this way.

[localzuk]

Its an odd process for CTC to be honest. If you do a paper based exercise to determine what you might need, the quote you get during the procurement process may not even be the end result you get once you have selected them and done a survey.

 

Its all a bit "cart before the horse".

 

The DfE seem to have designed the process to be as complex as possible.

[RedwayNetworks_Michael]

Its an odd process for CTC to be honest. If you do a paper based exercise to determine what you might need, the quote you get during the procurement process may not even be the end result you get once you have selected them and done a survey.

 

Its all a bit "cart before the horse".

 

The DfE seem to have designed the process to be as complex as possible.

 

It used to be a case of survey after first proposal but i imagine that caused too many changes once people surveyed.

Although its not ideal i can see it been easier for the DFE team to manage.

 

If you have a preferred supplier to use they will survey and be able to come up with a bill of materials which you could then use to get 2 more quotes for the 3 quote exercise.

Once you are past that stage and have a chosen supplier its full steam ahead and the supplier should be able to help with paperwork ect too and help with any justification.

 

As Lee mentioned i would recommend using someone that has done some of these projects already as it will make the approval process much easier as they will already be aware of what can be approved and not so is much less forth and back with the DfE contact.

[Wave9_Lee]

@Wave9_Lee we were hoping to use our current WIFI provider through the KCS framework. From the link that @localzuk provided (thank you) KCS is listed for hardware, but not networking. I want to be 100% sure I'm doing the right things for my schools and want to go the direct award route. I'd appreciate your input as you clearly both have a good understanding of this.

 

You can book a meeting slot in my signature of you want to have a chat, anytime.

 

In terms of that specific framework - I guess you need to make sure of a few things;

 

• Is your preferred supplier the right choice (based on capability, experience and the CTC process)? - It's one thing be able to quote and ship a bunch of kit, but the requiremenst include detailed survey, cabling works, configuration, installation, optional ongoing support, not to mention the current goal-post moving and iterative specification justifications etc (!)
  
• Is the framework or Lot, appropriate - you'll need to contact the framework manager to confirm
  
• Does the framework process support your objectives (i.e. quick quotes/direct award or whatever)
  

 

If the answer to the first two are 'yes', but the process for the framework would entail you engaging with 17 suppliers initially, then you'd probably be better running your own 3 quotes process or looking elsewhere in my view. Just bear in mind that some providers won't engage due to the issues mentioned in my earlier post.

[Disease]

We have just gone through the process of getting 3 quotes, choosing our supplier and submitting to the DfE. One of the quotes we had was from RM who then subsequently had a complete hissy fit when we didn't award to them, even going so far as contacting the DfE directly about it.

 

Won't be using them for anything in the future after this experience.