[tv show] Sky and Channel 4 strike deal to show 2021 Formula 1 season finale live...

[River]

I am a Lewis fan, and while I wish he had won his 8th title I do think that Max did deserve this title. BUT not in the way that he did. It was not his fault that Masi decided to cause controversy by making a call that so many are confused by and think was wrong. So congratulations to Max for winning, and also Lewis for (in my opinion) being the better driver. The only losers are the fans who have had a year of random and inconsistent penalties and rules.

[jthompson]

This article from Andrew Benson for the BBC gives some wider context.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59643988

 

The problem for the FIA, insiders say, is that the spotlight on Abu Dhabi was so bright, in the context of the gripping title fight between Hamilton and Verstappen, that F1's reputation as a responsibly and effectively governed sport is on the line.

 

It's patently obvious to me that the normal safety car procedure was discarded, and discarded purely because the prospect of finishing a title decider under yellow was so unpalatable.

[paulkerton]

I know you like a good debate, but logically looking at the time between cars, time needed to pit (even under a VSC & SC) there was no way the leader could have pitted and retained track position regardless of the team and driver at that point. It's a pure numbers game.

 

Yes there is. If he'd have come in at the same time as Max at lap 36, or a lap later under the first VSC.

[synaesthesia]

It's worth pointing out a lot of this hangs on the difference of the wording "any" and "all" in that clause, however Masi himself set the precedent for it being all or nothing previously.

[paulkerton]

however Masi himself set the precedent for it being all or nothing previously.

 

No, that's Amazon Prime, Netflx is Drive to Survive.

:getmecoat:

[Ironside]

No, they didn't.

 

 

 

But apparently you want the race director to make new rules up to benefit Mercedes....

 

 

 

You don't have to share my view, but it's clear that they got the strategy wrong when you've got Lewis in the faster car on tyres that couldn't keep up with a slower car on fresher tyres. Especially when Lewis had the chance 10 laps prior to change them and didn't take them because his team thought race position meant more than a tyre change.

 

"No, they didn't."

 

"If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all teams Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car.This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed."

 

Masi deliberately ordered only cars between Max and Lewis to overtake the safety car, hence breaching article 39.12 of the F1 2021 Sporting Regulations.

[paulkerton]

Masi deliberately ordered only cars between Max and Lewis to overtake the safety car, hence breaching article 39.12 of the F1 2021 Sporting Regulations.

2021 Sporting Regulations for Formula One

 

Clause 15.3 The clerk of the course shall work in permanent consultation with the Race Director. The Race Director shall have overriding authority in the following matters and the clerk of the course may give orders in respect of them only with his express agreement:

Subsection e) The use of the safety car

[Ironside]

That clause only dictates who must listen to who, it doesn't give masi a catch-all "I can do what I want" button

[jthompson]

I think this thread is in danger of going around in circles.

 

The question is, is that behind the safety car or not?

[paulkerton]

That clause only dictates who must listen to who, it doesn't give masi a catch-all "I can do what I want" button

 

Funnily enough, the FIA disagree with that interpretation.

[Ironside]

Funnily enough, the FIA disagree with that interpretation.

And both you and the FIA are wrong.

[paulkerton]

And both you and the FIA are wrong.

Ahhh this is like the Tolkien didn't understand his own work argument... I see...

Edited December 14, 2021 by paulkerton

[Ironside]

Ahhh this is like the Tolkien didn't understand his own work argument... I see...

God, these fanbois.

If you want to tell me after this mess of a season that the FIA, stewards and Masi follow the rules to the T and don't make season-ruining mistakes I can only assume you and I haven't been watching the same races.

 

Also I'm a Aston Martin fanboy thank you very much, Vettel for WDC 2022

[paulkerton]

If you want to tell me after this mess of a season that the FIA, stewards and Masi follow the rules to the T and don't make season-ruining mistakes I can only assume you and I haven't been watching the same races.

 

The best season of Formula One is 25 years and its "ruined"

 

Wow. Honestly.

[Boredguy]

errm, no had Lewis pitted under VSC, Max would have stayed out as is often the practice. He was told to do the opposite of Lewis on lap 36 as both teams were in the pits ready, but the 5.7 second lead was not enough to pit and retain a lead. We all know that Max could choose to drive Lewis off the road while defending and as long as it wasn't on purpose win the Championship but I doubt he would had done so... more likely he would just have a very very wide car and we could of had several exciting laps until his tyres degraded and the Safety car came out for the crash and etc etc etc, but that is by the by.

 

Max won, Lewis congratulated him once he composed himself and got out the car. The drivers and the teams were not the ones that caused the controversy, but rather the procedures from Race Control.

[Boredguy]

I think this thread is in danger of going around in circles.

 

The question is, is that behind the safety car or not?

 

Sorry your not allowed to go past it, the message hasn't been displayed yet

[paulkerton]

errm, no had Lewis pitted under VSC, Max would have stayed out as is often the practice.

And Lewis couldn't have pitted after him? Max's tyres would've lasted even though they'd gone a lap longer than Lewis's? Lewis had the faster car when all was equal from lap 13, that much was clear.

I mean, this all sounds like bad pit strategy to me...

 

We all know that Max could choose to drive Lewis off the road while defending and as long as it wasn't on purpose win the Championship but I doubt he would had done so...

I doubt it too, it's not like being 33 points behind at Silverstone is it...

[elsiegee40]

 

Come on you lot. Play nicely.

 

This thread has been reported and we will be watching it. If the circular argument continues it will be closed without deployment of a safety car.

[paulkerton]

This thread has been reported.

 

...

TOTO!!!!!!

[Boredguy]

And Lewis couldn't have pitted after him? Max's tyres would've lasted even though they'd gone a lap longer than Lewis's? Lewis had the faster car when all was equal from lap 13, that much was clear.

I mean, this all sounds like bad pit strategy to me...

You sure you've been watching F1 this season, pit stop strategy for track position is always key

[paulkerton]

You sure you've been watching F1 this season, pit stop strategy for track position is always key

Except in Brazil, where yeah, Verstappen didn't give Hamilton a lot of space in Turn 4, but clearly Turn 1 at Yas Marina was fine to cut the corner and take an advantage. Bad pit strategy by Mercedes all season, and it happened again here.

[Boredguy]

Errm, no-one cut the corner at turn 1 otherwise they would have ended up in the tunnel wall, but you mean turn 6. Yes that was a strange call but again a Max dive bomb overtake and avoiding action needed. Lewis could have slowed up more before entering sector 3, but at that phase of the race I'm not sure it would have made much difference which of them were in the lead at the end of lap 1, other than the fact the racing would have been even more epic...

 

From the rumblings going on last night, looks like Merc will drop the appeal since Toto did congratulate Max on Sunday night as well. Like a lot of other times the appeals are often to try and get the complex rule book looked at and clarified more than anything else.

[jnfarmer]

Forgetting all the strategy if, buts and maybes. I think the way this safety car and unlapped cars regulation was applied at Abu Dhabi has thrown as all. It may say 'any car' or something about race director/stewards having final say but what has become the 'norm' is either all unlapped cars have gone through, or none at all. I've never seen it before when some have been allowed through and some haven't. I would question why we saw it for arguably the first time on the last lap, of the last race of the season? If it's allowed within the regs, then that's fine but it doesn't seem clear to any of us and that's why this thread is getting a bit spicy! Think it does need some clearing up between FIA and F1 though...

[tmoon-mint]

Sorry guys but it had to be done.

 

[Ditto]

I'm surprised Bottas didn't have a 'breakdown' at the end, at a spot requiring a further deployment of the VSC. That would have been a bit devious

 

The same sort of vigorous debate would have kicked off though, that I'm sure about!