Garacesh Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 Title, really. I don't expect there's any help to be had, since the hardware is so old, and Promethean's official line (at least as per this thread) is "It's not an us problem it's a Windows problem", but it's worth an ask. So we still have a lot of 2nd generation Promethean IWBs that are intermittently crashing with IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL blue-screen-of-deaths. Going off reports, they seem to work just fine for a bit, and then kablooey. I have tried using the latest ActivDriver (5.18.19, from this page). This is the initial driver we installed. I have tried the 'unsupported' ActivDriver listed on this page. Using that, there's no crashes. There's also no 'interactive' functionality, either. The pens stop working when this driver is used. I have obtained a much earlier version of the driver (5.15.10) from another school who shall remain nameless. This version still produces BSODs. I have confirmed we are using the latest board firmware, according to ActivManager (Update/Internet option said no new version) I have rolled back to older firmware (3.75, from this page) to no avail BSOD data obtained from WinDbg: SYMBOL_NAME: ACTIVhidmini+c0f MODULE_NAME: ACTIVhidmini IMAGE_NAME: ACTIVhidmini.sys STACK_COMMAND: .thread ; .cxr ; kb BUCKET_ID_FUNC_OFFSET: c0f FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: AV_ACTIVhidmini!unknown_function OS_VERSION: 10.0.19041.1 BUILDLAB_STR: vb_release OSPLATFORM_TYPE: x64 OSNAME: Windows 10 FAILURE_ID_HASH: {6af976ac-df4f-6003-027e-f55fb1e09168} I'm really hoping there's something I've missed, or some kind of fix someone can throw my way. Rolling back to older versions of Windows isn't really an option at this rate, considering crashes have been reported as far back as 1903. Thanks for reading.
bald_pig Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 Have you tried replacing any cabling? Could be some aging cables dieing and causing intermittent communication?
LeMarchand Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 Have you tried replacing any cabling? Could be some aging cables dieing and causing intermittent communication? If it is this, I think i have some spare cables; PM me. I have a 5.17 driver and a "last serial" one too.
Boredguy Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 Didn't know I was nameless =/ Do you have another workstation handy that you can setup with latest version of Windows and see if it's still BSoD to rule out any hardware related causes/additional things connected. Also if you have Adobe Reader installed on the station, see if it still crashes when it's uninstalled.
Garacesh Posted September 10, 2021 Author Posted September 10, 2021 We don't have any spares, so I'd have to lop one off the wall and ruin someone else's day for that (though, given how many of these IWBs we have, and how few people have reported crashes, I'm not convinced that many are actually using the interactive bit of their board, so I could probably get away with it...) I'm doing some digging into how exactly they're cabled. The main room I'm doing my tests in (because it's pretty much always got the same 2 members of staff in it, so I get proper feedback about any changes) has both a USB connection and a serial to... I have no idea, it looks like a DC12V pin but I don't know if that's it's actual purpose. Consequently, that computer has COM1 and COM3 available in ActivManager. I'm unsure if this is related, and I'm waiting for other classrooms to be free to investigate further. Oh, and to add insult to injury, I know that V3.97 Build 13 exists, as ActivManager clearly displays the firmware downgrade, but if you try to do an internet upgrade, it says there isn't a newer version. WAT. If it is this, I think i have some spare cables; PM me. I have a 5.17 driver and a "last serial" one too. It's worth a try, I shall drop you a line Didn't know I was nameless =/ Do you have another workstation handy that you can setup with latest version of Windows and see if it's still BSoD to rule out any hardware related causes/additional things connected. Also if you have Adobe Reader installed on the station, see if it still crashes when it's uninstalled. Didn't know if you'd get shouted at for providing historical versions we all know some company or other that are like NO YOU HAVE TO GET IT FROM US YOU CAN'T GET IT ANYWHERE ELSE DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT RAAAHHH so didn't want to risk it lol. I have actually replaced the workstation, as initially I was using a different BSOD analyser that didn't give me as much info, so I had no idea what the stop code or erroring process was.
phillyrovers Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 Use the unsupported driver. To get this driver to initialise correctly you either have to turn off secure boot, or find a way to permanently turn off driver signature enforcement in Windows....like the article states This 'may' help to achieve that: https://winaero.com/disable-driver-signature-enforcement-permanently-in-windows-10/
Garacesh Posted September 10, 2021 Author Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) ....... $Diety damnit. How did I miss that? And I mean, I'm not even gonna try and save face. I have been to that article several times (although admittedly most of the revisits were just *click*, "No, I've seen this page already", *close tab*, but still!) I guess this is what happens when you have several folk breathing down your neck to fix it right this instant huh? The guide you have linked permanently disables signature enforcement.. Does that have to be the case? Or is signature enforcement a check at the point of install? Do I absolutely have to leave it turned off, or can I turn it off, install the driver, then turn it back on again? I know technically it's not much of a risk, as a user would still need administrative rights to install a driver, signed or unsigned, but the amount of privesc vulns we see floating around the wild just makes me a bit uneasy about the idea. Edit: also is there a way I can get the V3.97 Build 13 or later firmware back? Edited September 10, 2021 by Garacesh
phillyrovers Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 It has to be off to work. The modification made in that driver means it needs re-certifying. Which is literally impossible to achieve (again explained in the community article) Driver signature enforcement is turned off permanently if secure boot is disabled in the BIOS. The ‘F7’ method only turns it off for that reboot only. To get any firmware back to whatever version you want it on you will need a connection to ActivManager (preferably the unsupported with signature enforcement off - and then you can change it as needed (assuming it’s a direct USB connection). If you’re struggling you would be best contacting Promethean Support who should be able to guide you.
Garacesh Posted September 10, 2021 Author Posted September 10, 2021 Okay, I'm aware that I might be coming across as a little argumentative, and if I am I sincerely apologise, it's not my intention, it's just that I don't feel that my question has actually answered. Also I respect that you're acting as an individual and not a member of promethean support (as per your signature earlier in the thread), so I appreciate if the only answer you can give is "Get in touch with support". I don't want to be seen as hostile or pushy or anything. It has to be off to work. [...] Driver signature enforcement is turned off permanently if secure boot is disabled in the BIOS. The ‘F7’ method only turns it off for that reboot only. So do I need to leave it off? I've been trying to find actual information about signature enforcement in between tickets coming in, but all I'm finding is loads of articles about how to turn it off, none of them are actually mentioning how it works. Is signature enforcement an "enforce signature checks when a driver is installed" or an "enforce signature checks when the driver is run" type of deal? If it's the former, then I can turn it back on, if it's the latter then I can't. Also we do use Secure Boot here, so will I need to reimage the machine with secure boot disabled, or does the previously posted commands override that? I guess lessons will be over soon, so I can test turning it back on myself, I was just hoping it was an easy yes-or-no answer. To get any firmware back to whatever version you want it on you will need a connection to ActivManager (preferably the unsupported with signature enforcement off - and then you can change it as needed (assuming it’s a direct USB connection). Yeah but that firmware doesn't seem to be available anywhere. The newest I can find on Promethean's website is the 3.75 firmware previously mentioned, which I'm currently using. But the instance of ActivManager installed on that device was on (and even still states) a higher version, a version which apparently doesn't exist if I use the 'Internet' option - it says there are no updates available.
phillyrovers Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 The higher firmware you mention will be the ActivArena firmware, which allowed the older boards to use 'dual pens' There should be an article on the support site for ActivArena somewhere. This one will cover it: https://support.prometheanworld.com/article/1030/ Enforce signature is when the driver is installed AND run...so its actually both You will need to have driver enforcement off with those older 'AC2' ActivBoards for the unsupported driver to work. The only way to stop the BSOD from happening with those older boards is to use that unsupported driver. You're not coming across as argumentative at all. I get its frustrating, but there is literally no fix that Promethean can supply. We got lucky that we could supply an unsupported driver. 1
Garacesh Posted September 13, 2021 Author Posted September 13, 2021 Alrighty. Thanks very much for your time You've been a great help.
Garacesh Posted September 13, 2021 Author Posted September 13, 2021 The plot thickens, much to my chagrin So I've gone into the BIOS, disabled Secure Boot, even wiped the Secure Boot keys, logged in as an admit, executed bcdedit.exe /set nointegritychecks on from an administrative powershell prompt, rebooted, installed ActivDriver 5.18.16 x64 and... ActivManager doesn't see a board at all.
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