PAT testing of items in semi-perpetual storage

[tcarrington]

Hi, I'm wondering what the law/recommendations are on:

 

A drawer full of laptops PSUs, never used, probably wont be used, certainly haven't moved since last PAT test last year

 

Drawers full of IEC C5s, IEC C13s, IEC C7s etc that haven't moved since last PAT test.

 

Obviously the PAT testers are biased as they get 50p per item and a drawer full is an easy buck.

 

What benefit is the visual inspection of comms cupboard IEC cables?

 

thanks

[bald_pig]

Strictly speaking, there is no legal requirement to perform PAT tests whatsoever.

 

Personally, I'd get one or two cables tested so nobody can complain if you replace a cable.

[Chris_Cook]

It depends on how you assess the risk. If they arn't going to get used, then they arn't much risk. But then why keep them?

 

If you pat test internally, I would just do it as the items are required.

 

If its an external company, probably a test every other year and a good user visual inspection before use should cover you on this.

 

Most items (80-90% IIRC) that fail a PAT test fail on the visual inspection. When it comes to common cables like IECs I'm really quite ruthless with what we keep. If it doesn't look pretty much brand new it goes in the recycling. Even if we had to replace them, they are only like 99p each. And we have loads of them.

[DrBeaker]

Strictly speaking, there is no legal requirement to perform PAT tests whatsoever.

 

Personally, I'd get one or two cables tested so nobody can complain if you replace a cable.

 

 

I thought it was basically for the "electrical safety" aspect of UK employment law? i.e. the electrical safety - HSE they must ensure that the electrical installation and equipment is safe

It depends on how you assess the risk. If they arn't going to get used, then they arn't much risk. But then why keep them?

 

If you pat test internally, I would just do it as the items are required.

 

If its an external company, probably a test every other year and a good user visual inspection before use should cover you on this.

 

Most items (80-90% IIRC) that fail a PAT test fail on the visual inspection. When it comes to common cables like IECs I'm really quite ruthless with what we keep. If it doesn't look pretty much brand new it goes in the recycling. Even if we had to replace them, they are only like 99p each. And we have loads of them.

 

 

Concerning thing is I've had plugs for whiteboards "pass" a PAT test, then a few days later to go and remove it from the mains socket to find the plastic crumbles away in my hand, it's gone that brittle.

[robk]

Hide the boxes of New ones in a box out of the way, don't PAT them as they are new and not used... Any sign of damage on any IEC goes into the recycling. At 60p an item regular pat testing equipment not in use (so not going to get damaged, or electrocute someone) is a waste in my opinion. "New" cables should be tested as they are dispatched, so as long as they pass a visual should be safe to use.

[bald_pig]

I thought it was basically for the "electrical safety" aspect of UK employment law? i.e. the electrical safety - HSE they must ensure that the electrical installation and equipment is safe

Pretty much. A new cable with a visual inspection will be sufficient though.

 

 

Concerning thing is I've had plugs for whiteboards "pass" a PAT test, then a few days later to go and remove it from the mains socket to find the plastic crumbles away in my hand, it's gone that brittle.

 

You may need to find a new tester, they should be unplugging equipment to test it!

[Andrew_C]

Pretty much as above. However, be careful where you get your IEC leads.

 

The PAT monkeys passed a lead a couple years back. When I found it in a lab, it got retested with our stuff, but wouldn't pass the earth bond. Cut it open, and it was made od tinsel. NO WAY it would ever have passed a test.

 

Referred to senior manglement who did f'k all...

[Zammo]

PAT testing (or PA testing if you want to be a pedant) is not mentioned in any law. Period.

 

 

 

“As may be necessary to prevent danger, all systems shall be maintained so as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, such danger”

 

The Electricity at Work Regulations - Regulation 4(2)

 

PAT testing is seen by many as a way to meet that obligation, and yearly testing has become the de facto standard.

 

The reality is you could PAT test everything every 6 months but if 1 day after a test a cable gets pinched in a drawer and splits, it’s a hazard. If it was proven someone knew about the split cable and didn’t replace it, a recent PAT test would not save the company from punishment.

 

On the flip side, if you can show you have stringent process and record keeping practices, not PAT testing a box of seldom used cables annually may be seen as acceptable.

[Andrew_C]

 

“As may be necessary to prevent danger, all systems shall be maintained so as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, such danger”

 

The Electricity at Work Regulations - Regulation 4(2)

.

 

PUWER also has requirements that can be addressed in part by a proper inspection and test regime. If you DON'T PAT, you are going to have to implement a process that looks very much like it, or risk big fines and jail for senior management in the event of an electrocution.

[Zammo]

PUWER also has requirements that can be addressed in part by a proper inspection and test regime. If you DON'T PAT, you are going to have to implement a process that looks very much like it, or risk big fines and jail for senior management in the event of an electrocution.

 

Very true

 

For that reason PAT is the de facto standard, even if not officially enshrined in law

The HSE has a really good Q and A here actually:

 

https://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/faq-portable-appliance-testing.htm

[Ditto]

I don't think many of us have much of an issue with PAT testing when done properly. Where many of us have been annoyed, is when the leadership team pay considerable sums of money to have a bunch of stickers on anything attached to the plug, or as mentioned, a tray full of power leads in storage without conducting any kind of an inspection. In of the primaries I was at, they rifled through a storage cupboard and went sticker crazy and at £1 per power lead, that was some hourly rate. On top of this, I discovered a cable trapped behind a desk I used with exposed live wiring, because the site manager have shoved the desk around so much against a second it effectively got shredded, they didn't even find it - probably because it wasn't easy to get to. At my school of governance, we trained up the site manager to be PAT certified and it has saved us a bunch of money and provided him with an additional means of income out of school.

[IrritableTech]

The PAT monkeys passed a lead a couple years back. When I found it in a lab, it got retested with our stuff, but wouldn't pass the earth bond. Cut it open, and it was made od tinsel. NO WAY it would ever have passed a test.

The super competitive market of PAT has meant testers cut corners. A decent test of even an IEC lead should end up taking a minute for a full visual, with fuse rating check and following electrical check and that's after you've spent the time locating, unplugging, untangling etc. One of our previous ~50p per item testers recently divulged when presented with a box of cables he would test 10% fully, then just sticker the rest expecting his liability insurance to cover the slim chance of an accident occurring because of something he missed.

[Ditto]

The super competitive market of PAT has meant testers cut corners. A decent test of even an IEC lead should end up taking a minute for a full visual, with fuse rating check and following electrical check and that's after you've spent the time locating, unplugging, untangling etc. One of our previous ~50p per item testers recently divulged when presented with a box of cables he would test 10% fully, then just sticker the rest expecting his liability insurance to cover the slim chance of an accident occurring because of something he missed.

Exactly this! As a ex H&S governor, I feel much more confident about safety having one of our own doing the work. As for the liability insurance covering this testers negligence, if found out I don't think he'd have much chance of getting away with it.

[msi_school]

I agree fully with the consensus here about poor PAT inspectors although I also do not appreciate losing days of technician time to doing testing.

 

The thing with PAT tests I always consider is that in the event of an accident do I want to be telling the HSE yes we PAT test following the industry standard and here are the records or do I want to have to justify a home brew system.

[bald_pig]

I agree fully with the consensus here about poor PAT inspectors although I also do not appreciate losing days of technician time to doing testing.

 

The thing with PAT tests I always consider is that in the event of an accident do I want to be telling the HSE yes we PAT test following the industry standard and here are the records or do I want to have to justify a home brew system.

 

Do you call out the PAT testers every time you get a new device? Is every new cable PAT tested when it comes through the gate?

 

You cannot rely on PAT testing alone, and if you know that the PAT testers are being negligent then I'd argue that your records aren't worth the paper they're written on!

 

Also, doing your own PAT testing isn't a homebrew system in any way...

[Steve21]

Do you call out the PAT testers every time you get a new device? Is every new cable PAT tested when it comes through the gate?

 

I guess the difference in that regard is the law/guidelines says new stuff doesn't have to be tested as it should be supplied safe (should etc )

 

Steve

[robyholmes]

We have a single database (SharePoint List) which is our inventory for insurance and PAT records. Any items over £100 (Insurance requirement) or any item with a plug gets added. We try to add them when new so they don't get missed later on. We PAT test if required at this point just so the item is on the database with a retest date. All items have an asset number (also used for PC naming)

 

Any items which move around are on 1 year, fixed but plugged in items are on 2 years. So for IT that's desktops and monitors on 2 years and laptops on 1 year. The database tracks when items need doing, but we tend to do whole rooms at a time so things get done in batches.

 

However, we also test based on risk. So if an bit kit is moved which still has 1 year to run, we'd test it. Might as well while it's moved. Of course same applies with damage or repaired items. Test before reuse.

 

All testing done in house.

[Zammo]

Do you call out the PAT testers every time you get a new device? Is every new cable PAT tested when it comes through the gate?

 

Also, doing your own PAT testing isn't a homebrew system in any way...

 

The HSE Guidelines explicitly state that new equipment does not have to be PAT tested, but a simple visual check is recommended.

[bald_pig]

I guess the difference in that regard is the law/guidelines says new stuff doesn't have to be tested as it should be supplied safe (should etc )

 

The HSE Guidelines explicitly state that new equipment does not have to be PAT tested, but a simple visual check is recommended.

 

Yes, but at that point you can't just rely on PAT testing records as they were saying they would...

[msi_school]

Do you call out the PAT testers every time you get a new device? Is every new cable PAT tested when it comes through the gate?

 

You cannot rely on PAT testing alone, and if you know that the PAT testers are being negligent then I'd argue that your records aren't worth the paper they're written on!

 

Also, doing your own PAT testing isn't a homebrew system in any way...

 

Sorry I have reread my post I don't think it was clear. A company who are not testing properly can not be relied on as you say and it can be easier to bring your testing in house however, I often find that the time required for testing can take a large chunk out of my technicians time for simple process I can buy in. I have had to do spot checks on external contractors I have also heard the same stories of corner cutting leveled at internal staff.

 

What I meant about home brew test was in agreement with @Andrew_C

 

PUWER also has requirements that can be addressed in part by a proper inspection and test regime. If you DON'T PAT, you are going to have to implement a process that looks very much like it, or risk big fines and jail for senior management in the event of an electrocution.

 

If you are going to not follow the standard but instead create your own testing system to replace PAT you could find yourself having to defend it after an accident with an entrenched electrical safety industry standing behind PAT.

 

In no way did I mean to question in house testing and I apologize if my above reply read that way.