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Meet & Safeguarding

edmokeski

By edmokeski
in Cloud Services

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paulkerton

paulkerton

Posted
Posted
Also, did anyone see that clip on the news with a pupil self isolating at home? They where watching

the lesson via a live stream but not sure what tech they where using to do it. Can't seem to find the

clip now, was it a devon school, maybe I dreamt it ?

 

Like I've said before, I don't disagree with the sentiment, but things can be put in place to mitigate any potential issues, should this be a path people want to take, including one way live streaming, or simply just recording and sharing that video.

 

Google Hangouts Meet! :D

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-51809640/coronavirus-devon-school-reopens-after-quarantine

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jthompson

jthompson

Posted
Posted
There was a similar discussion on the Today programme this morning about GPs conducting more appointments over video links. "Why not use FaceTime or Skype?". The response was that the proper tools for GPs needed to take into account safety and confidentiality.
Primus

Primus

Posted
Posted
Like I've said before, I don't disagree with the sentiment, but things can be put in place to mitigate any potential issues, should this be a path people want to take, including one way live streaming, or simply just recording and sharing that video.

 

Google Hangouts Meet! :D

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-51809640/coronavirus-devon-school-reopens-after-quarantine

 

Ok I love tech and I think Hangouts Meet will work well if used in the right way but that BBC video frightens me.

 

She's sitting on her bed in her bedroom on a webcam to her teacher's laptop and admits she's been in her PJs a lot rather than uniform - it's a safeguarding nightmare waiting to happen and the school are so clueless they've allowed the BBC in to film it!

paulkerton

paulkerton

Posted
Posted
Ok I love tech and I think Hangouts Meet will work well if used in the right way but that BBC video frightens me.

She's sitting on her bed in her bedroom on a webcam to her teacher's laptop and admits she's been in her PJs a lot rather than uniform - it's a safeguarding nightmare waiting to happen and the school are so clueless they've allowed the BBC in to film it!

 

The control in this instance is that the teacher is still in the classroom, on site - rather than being in their own space.

If all Meets and Skypes/Teams calls were recorded and stored in eDiscovery solutions, then that would be a suitable safeguard.

Primus

Primus

Posted
Posted
As someone who both teaches and manages tech I can tell you there is zero chance I'd feel happy having a web conference with a female student sitting in her PJs in her bedroom - it is flatout not appropriate.
paulkerton

paulkerton

Posted
Posted
As someone who both teaches and manages tech I can tell you there is zero chance I'd feel happy having a web conference with a female student sitting in her PJs in her bedroom - it is flatout not appropriate.

 

I don't disagree, but that's something that needs to be communicated to parents, ultimately.

There are still 20+ children in that class at the same time. This isn't a 1 to 1 situation. Now those situations would be very difficult.

Primus

Primus

Posted
Posted
I don't disagree, but that's something that needs to be communicated to parents, ultimately.

There are still 20+ children in that class at the same time. This isn't a 1 to 1 situation. Now those situations would be very difficult.

 

The number of other kids in the class is irrelevant, they also can't see his laptop screen and unless this is a super rich school the likelihood is that's his personal MacBook Pro. From the clip it seemed she was the only one on web conference with him.

 

How many parents would feel comforatable with their teenage daughter web conferencing with a male teacher sitting in her PJs in her bedroom on her bed?!

 

The tech is not the issue, it's how it's used but this news report is a prime example of how not to do it!

paulkerton

paulkerton

Posted
Posted
The number of other kids in the class is irrelevant, they also can't see his laptop screen and unless this is a super rich school the likelihood is that's his personal MacBook Pro. From the clip it seemed she was the only one on web conference with him.

How many parents would feel comforatable with their teenage daughter web conferencing with a male teacher sitting in her PJs in her bedroom on her bed?!

The tech is not the issue, it's how it's used but this news report is a prime example of how not to do it!

You're making a big assumption with that person device thing... You shouldn't be allowing personal devices on site for work use if that is your concern. The assumption unless otherwise explained is that its a work device.

Yeah, I think you're being completely OTT here.

There are plenty of witnesses here to suggest that the staff member isn't in any way being inappropriate. I'm pretty sure the kids would notice him saying something inappropriate, or whipping his privates out in front of the class!

This really isn't a safeguarding issue. 1:1, yes. I see the issue. Remotely connecting to the existing class with lots of other people in that she wouldn't otherwise attend? Never, in a million years is it an insurmountable safeguarding issue.

Primus

Primus

Posted
Posted
You're making a big assumption with that person device thing... You shouldn't be allowing personal devices on site for work use if that is your concern. The assumption unless otherwise explained is that its a work device.

Yeah, I think you're being completely OTT here.

There are plenty of witnesses here to suggest that the staff member isn't in any way being inappropriate. I'm pretty sure the kids would notice him saying something inappropriate, or whipping his privates out in front of the class!

This really isn't a safeguarding issue. 1:1, yes. I see the issue. Remotely connecting to the existing class with lots of other people in that she wouldn't otherwise attend? Never, in a million years is it an insurmountable safeguarding issue.

 

I'm being OTT for suggesting that a male teacher video conferencing with a female teenager in her bedroom in her PJs is inappropriate? I seriously fail to see how!

 

It's not just him that could be doing something inappropriate - she could also, she could forget the camera is on, inadvertantly show something she didn't want to - example from another thread was underwear on a radiator etc.

 

This categorically is a safeguarding issue, if you allow your teachers to do what's being described here you will end up with all kinds of allegations.

paulkerton

paulkerton

Posted
Posted
I'm being OTT for suggesting that a male teacher video conferencing with a female teenager in her bedroom in her PJs is inappropriate? I seriously fail to see how!

It's not just him that could be doing something inappropriate - she could also, she could forget the camera is on, inadvertantly show something she didn't want to - example from another thread was underwear on a radiator etc.

This categorically is a safeguarding issue, if you allow your teachers to do what's being described here you will end up with all kinds of allegations.

 

1. In this video she isn't in her PJs. She's in her own room "on her own", and that could be an issue - but it isn't because she's got a soundman and a camera guy and probably a journalist in there with her

2. That is a conversation to have with parents and set boundaries that they're expected to actually get dressed before the meeting, and to suggest that it should occur in a neutral space.

3. A pupil in a classroom could bend over and accidentally show her underwear. The webcam in this situation has very, very little to do with it.

4. Oh no! Washing being dried on the rads. The horror! The sheer horror!

 

The fact that it's in a room with 30 people in, means you're definitely being over the top here.

 

Safeguarding isn't about stopping anything from happening - things will happen, its about putting safeguards in place to make sure that if things do happen, which they can, then they're handled appropriately. Maybe she should be in a neutral room. Maybe she should get dressed... What we can't get paranoid about is that webcam equals danger.

 

If it was a 1:1 situation, I could understand your issue. In this case, other than maybe it should be in a different room in the house, the basic concept of a child joining their existing class filled with classmates on a video conference, is absolutely reasonable from any safeguarding point of view.

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Primus

Primus

Posted
Posted
1. In this video she isn't in her PJs. She's in her own room "on her own", and that could be an issue - but it isn't because she's got a soundman and a camera guy and probably a journalist in there with her

2. That is a conversation to have with parents and set boundaries that they're expected to actually get dressed before the meeting, and to suggest that it should occur in a neutral space.

3. A pupil in a classroom could bend over and accidentally show her underwear. The webcam in this situation has very, very little to do with it.

4. Oh no! Washing being dried on the rads. The horror! The sheer horror!

 

The fact that it's in a room with 30 people in, means you're definitely being over the top here.

 

Safeguarding isn't about stopping anything from happening - things will happen, its about putting safeguards in place to make sure that if things do happen, which they can, then they're handled appropriately. Maybe she should be in a neutral room. Maybe she should get dressed... What we can't get paranoid about is that webcam equals danger.

 

If it was a 1:1 situation, I could understand your issue. In this case, other than maybe it should be in a different room in the house, the basic concept of a child joining their existing class filled with classmates on a video conference, is absolutely reasonable from any safeguarding point of view.

 

Ok agree to disagree as you're clearly not going to change your mind and I certainly am not going to change mine! I would just point out that not only do I teach and manage all the kit but I've also had the full DSL training. I would simply never ever put myself in that position.

paulkerton

paulkerton

Posted
Posted
Ok agree to disagree as you're clearly not going to change your mind and I certainly am not going to change mine! I would just point out that not only do I teach and manage all the kit but I've also had the full DSL training. I would simply never ever put myself in that position.

I'm not a fan of appeals to authority, or the assumption that I've not been through safeguarding training myself.

Primus

Primus

Posted
Posted
I'm not a fan of appeals to authority, or the assumption that I've not been through safeguarding training myself.

 

Ok Captain Aggressive, point out where such an assumption was made - my post was me telling you my background as to why I may feel the way I do about this.

paulkerton

paulkerton

Posted
Posted
Ok Captain Aggressive, point out where such an assumption was made - my post was me telling you my background as to why I may feel the way I do about this.

I'm also not a fan of people accusing others of the behaviour they're exhibiting.

jthompson

jthompson

Posted
Posted

That BBC clip is a little different from the sorts of scenarios we've been generally talking about in this thread. That's a normal classroom lesson going on with one particular student joined to it via Meet. It's a very specific set of circumstances for one pupil, so the school may well have addressed it in greater detail than perhaps we're assuming. There's a jump to go from that particular case to the more general case of all of the pupils being at home for every lesson.

 

There's still a privacy issue there, though. A private residence is essentially being joined with a classroom. It allows a parent, for instance, to be able to hear what's going in in a classroom incognito. That wouldn't normally be something a school would even consider allowing IRL, and plenty of teachers would take issue with that. Also, background noises from that girl's home could be playing out into the classroom. The privacy of the home is at risk.

paulkerton

paulkerton

Posted
Posted
There's still a privacy issue there, though. A private residence is essentially being joined with a classroom. It allows a parent, for instance, to be able to hear what's going in in a classroom incognito. That wouldn't normally be something a school would even consider allowing IRL, and plenty of teachers would take issue with that. Also, background noises from that girl's home could be playing out into the classroom. The privacy of the home is at risk.

 

:rolleyes2:

 

I'm just going to give up now. I feel like I've stepped into an EdTech episode of The Thick of It.

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