BSF....

[Styloid]

I work for a company suppling schools with ICT stuff. we are not big and not involved with BSF.

I have a number of issues with BSF, and like many here I am un-persuaded of its virtue and doubtful about its ability to deliver anything but invoicing for poor serivices.

However its here. And technicians have a number of choice of how to respond to it.

1) Get out of working in schools

2) Cluck and windge but do nowt

3) Accept it here and hope to infulence it or the better.

 

I am thinking about organising a day conferance for those involved - ICT staff, school management, smll companies. It would be free of all sales / sponsorship / big company vision bollocks stuff / spin

It would not be the usual Podium Powerpoint Paradigm , but simply be about sharing experiance and learning together and from each other, though hosted by skillful people who respect and encourage good discussion.

 

My question is this.. What is this worth? My costing are making me think a place would cost around £150 for techies and £200 for school management.

Would you consider comming for that ?

We could go reduce the price but my feeling is this would reduce the effectivnes and the whole thing would look a bit shody.

 

I am not promoting such an event here - just asking for some feedback. Id really appreciate your comments

Thanks

Edited May 14, 2008 by Styloid
spelling

[jsnetman]

200 quid for something we can learn about and share here, I doubt it!

[webman]

Far too expensive. I hardly think schools will be prepared to pay £150 to send NMs and Technicians to a conference where they will essentially learn "I need to leave my job before I got royally shafted".

[GrumbleDook]

small to medium suppliers know the problem, NMs and Techs are becoming aware of the problem from places like here ... the people that need targetting are LAs and Senior Leaders in schools.

 

And what you tell them is always going to be tempered by Govt messages and what the big boys say.

 

If you are interested in doing more then I would say to get in touch with BESA to see what help you can get, and see what other small / medium business are getting caught up in it all to get a larger group together.

 

Charging for NMs and Techs is not going to work as schools will not pay as it is hard to classify it as CPD (which is why I take it as holiday to go to things about BSF / BETT / EdUGeek to make it simpler).

 

We don't charge for our conferences as it eliminates a large barrier for some of us.

[greenfieldsupport]

Hells no...

 

Thats like a whole 7% of my years budget

 

why not host it at a school, im sure a few would be happy to let you out a room, and it would cost nothing...

 

Tbf I don't even goto free conferences if I dont have the time / think its useless.......

[BlogRat]

Waste of time, BSF comes with strings attached. Sign up for managed services or fund your own IT, oh and by the way we'll give you the money for managed services but if you go it alone you'll have to find the £££££££££££ yourself.

[elsiegee40]

I've got my cynical hat on ... and I'm at independent, so BSF isn't even a problem for me...

 

It sounds like a company trying to make money out of BSF * surely not! *

 

At £150 - £200 a head, even at a posh hotel, you'd make a fortune from this if lots of folks came wouldn't you?

 

It's not some official action group or steering committee, so the results are unlikely to have any influence in the long run.

 

Personally, I think the schools' money would be better spent elsewhere.

[greenfieldsupport]

yes.. on my school ;P

[Deaks]

Waste of time, BSF comes with strings attached. Sign up for managed services or fund your own IT, oh and by the way we'll give you the money for managed services but if you go it alone you'll have to find the £££££££££££ yourself.

 

It's worse than that! You have to pay MORE for the managed service than you used to for what you did in-house and had complete control over. You don't get new money to pay the managed service bill. Once it's all supplied and installed you have to start paying for it.

 

One of the Academy's in Bristol had to pay so much for the VLE that there was no money left for computers. They have less than 100 PCs (inc. all desktops and mobile devices) for their 800 students to use.

[Dos_Box]

£200 a head!! The next conf is £30 a head at a very well specced conference centre and we are even offsetting our members hotel bills by £20 per night and paying for their breakfasts!

Oh yes, and we are putting on a coach for them too.

That's how you get people interested!

[Zoom7000]

My school refused to pay for transport for me to get to the EduGeek Conference. On top of this, they don't want to tell us a damn thing about BSF. Almost 2 months on, I still haven't been told by anyone, SLT, LA or otherwise who the preferred bidder are... Don't you just love the Internet!

 

As mentioned above, we all know what the problems are with BSF, and in my experience I can't get the parties to sit down together in an office, let alone ask them to come discuss the issues and give me £200 each to come and tell me, frankly put, what they don't seem to want to tell me anyway!

 

Sorry to sound rude, but from the start, BSF has sounded like a right disaster from the day I first heard about it and the news just gets grimmer and grimmer and you want us to pay £150 to come and be told that's how it is anyway, because it's either sign a nice contract and you won't pay a thing, or don't sign and you won't get a penny towards ICT for the next 11 years till the contract is up! No thank you... You don't have a business here and I won't be investing so... I'm out!

[Styloid]

I have not really said very well what I hope the event will be - sorry.

I can hear that there is huge resentment about BSF.

I can also hear that budgets are very tight and there is no way many of those here could get to joint in.

I can also here that your tired to the shit that big companies and goverment schemes give you, which while claiming to be pro computing in schools and education are in fact tossers in suits who dont give a damm and getting in the way of what they claim to be for.

I can also here that you do care for ICT in schools - and care a lot.

 

Im going to reflect more on the situation - and see if I can impove what im planning, so your responces have been very useful.

 

I would just say - Im on your side - well on the side which values skill, cretivity IT in schools, and personal development.

 

There are many of us across the whole spectrum of society - who are deelpy concerned about BSF.These include PM's of all political parties, big parts of local government, school managment, companies which supply schools....

 

And some of us in ithe schools ICT industry acutally want to be there as its a great place to work, and we dont really care about profits to much - as its a wonderful thing to have work which is so meaningful. We like the techies in schools are faced with the same threat.

 

I suspect even many within the BSF think its a mad / bad / half baked idea, but are leading live of "quite desperation" and keeping their heads down and paying the mortgage.

 

I guess my plan was to bring all (or as many as possible) of these together for a well facilitated conversation.

 

And yes it may be a pile of crap with no outcome - but my experiance is that it WONT BE.

 

Dont you want the chance to speak ( and listen to) face to face with the men from Brussels, an MP, heads of school who are worried about effects on the school. I guarentee such an event would be free from podiums, powerpoint, and men in suits trying to sell you stuff. How good would that be?

 

Sorry a lot of words here.

More feedback will be appreciated.

Thanks

[GrumbleDook]

I can get invited to Westminster Briefing events where there is a chance for this sort of thing for around the same price ...

 

It is the price and that many here are not in a position to make a change within their schools.

 

Are you saying that you wish to put together a pressure group that will lobby the various Govt people at UK and EU level to change / fix BSF?

 

If that is what you are doing then please say so ... I think you would have significant backing on that, but few schools are going to cough up the cash to take part, and I don't think many here have the money to directly pay themselves.

[broc]

The people 'we' are up against as far as BSF are concerned are HM Govt; the Prime Minister, various Ministers of State, the Treasury, Partnership for Schools, the PFI 'industry', Large ICT companies who specialise in outsourcing ICT, large building contractors....... not to mention the millions of parents who have children at semi-derelict schools who have been promised a better environment for their children to learn in......

 

Do you seriously think a meeting where a few schools are represented can make a difference? I think not. I think the only way forward is to attempt to influence the BSF outcome at a local level; make sure staff & schools have a voice where they can.... so that they end up with something that goes some way to meeting their needs as it is already clear by wave 3 that the funding is inadequate for many school rebuilding projects in the pipeline.

 

Schools should be making major demands upon the LAs, who in turn should be insisting that potential bidders provide solutions that meet the schools needs otherwise what we will end up with will be the minimum the bidders can get away with at the maximum cost. Maybe when we get the message across some bidders will think twice before bidding for BSF business........

 

Meanwhile we could always hope the rising cost of materials coupled with the global credit crunch will make it even more difficult for Bidding Consortia to get the finance they need to fund their operations

[jsnetman]

Sorry but I have to do this. Is anybody going to take you seriously when your grammar and spelling is atrocious? If you are going to persuade people in education about your ideas type your posts into word and correct them before doing a post.

[Zoom7000]

Sorry but I have to do this. Is anybody going to take you seriously when your grammar and spelling is atrocious? If you are going to persuade people in education about your ideas type your posts into word and correct them before doing a post.

 

I was thinking the same thing myself! If you are planning on holding what would expect to be a top end meeting (because you are after all asking for £200 for the privilege to attend) I personally would expect the organiser to have impeccable spelling and grammar at the very least, as well as not using so much bad language every other sentence. Very unprofessional in this circumstance if you ask me.

 

Do you know we have a "FFS" forum here?

[Styloid]

But this is not a presentation - and I'm looking for feedback about my ideas nothing else. Sorry if its hard for you to understand.

But then as some one has noted "dyslexia is a way of loaf". As a fully paid up loxdoxic I know its a handicap.

My view is that - although there is carping about the cost and the spelling and me being in a big business and therefore (maybe) less worthy - you will all bust a gut to be there as its the only show in town of its type.

 

Small world theory says you need to go to a distant part of the forest. There you can find new knowledge which brings value and status when you bring them back to the tribe. Some of you lot need to get out more ! Hopefully I will be able to invite you at a cost you can afford some time soon.

No offence intended.

Edited May 15, 2008 by Styloid
SPELLING AND GRAMMER

[Joanne]

Last edited by Styloid; Today at 03:40 PM. Reason: SPELLING AND GRAMMER

 

hehe.

 

I think it's a bit late now to be against BSF. It's happened and there is no going back.

 

Sorry!

[broc]

@Styloid

 

If I were a cynical person, I might say that your primary concern is that as a small time supplier of ICT goods & services to schools, you have no future market with schools under BSF unless you can halt the juggernaut & therefore you need our help

 

As far as I can see, BSF will close down market access to a host of good, honest, reliable small companies & suppliers across the whole of the UK. I for one will be sorry for the companies I deal with who have up until now supported me & my school but will be unable to do so post-BSF.

[Zoom7000]

But this is not a presentation - and I'm looking for feedback about my ideas nothing else. Sorry if its hard for you to understand.

 

Well, if you're looking for feedback then surely from the previous replies you will have got it and IMO the mass consensus looks to be no one wants to, or can afford to, pay £150-£200 for an meeting room event discussing issues between parties who can't seem to be able to get together in a room for free!

 

Small world theory says you need to go to a distant part of the forest. There you can find new knowledge which brings value and status when you bring them back to the tribe. Some of you lot need to get out more ! Hopefully I will be able to invite you at a cost you can afford some time soon.

No offence intended.

 

This works both ways, wasn't it you who said in your first post "I have a number of issues with BSF, and like many here I am un-persuaded of its virtue and doubtful about its ability to deliver anything but invoicing for poor serivices. However its here."

 

'Nuff said, it's here, we've come to accepting it, with our reservations. As for inviting us to an event for a cost that we can afford, take into account what Dos Box said, not only is the EduGeek Conference free, no doubt some or many BSF issues will be discussed, but they are renumerating park of the hotel costs. If you really want to be helpful... take note!

[Styloid]

Of coarse its not over - BSF is wobbling like a 2m high jenga stack. the bricks can't be stacked much higher - and when it collapse or changes shape - we want intelligent reasonable experienced and honorable people to help reshape it.

Even if it does not explode - there will be plenty of chances to change iTs course.

Maybe I’m to optimistic - but the alternative is to let the bastards beat you. Who said you could have what you want without FIGHT ?

[broc]

@styloid

 

Why don't you go away and spend a good few days reading the various BSF threads on Edugeek before accusing the members here of sitting around & doing nothing.......

 

ps who is the 'we' in we want intelligent reasonable experienced ..........

 

'we' are already fighting our own battles about BSF, 'we' don't need any help from you. 'we' support our schools & care about the teaching & learning environment for 'our' students, that is why 'we' are not sitting round ........

[Styloid]

@broc

 

Is it me or are you a bit itchy scarchy?

I’m not picking a fight with anyone here, but so far you’re having a got at me for cynical self interest, and not having any background research and saying your im saying your "sitting around and doing nothing". My comment about not letting the bastards beat you we directed at Joanne, who has given up.

Edited May 15, 2008 by Styloid
grammar

[conehead]

Hi Styloid

 

I and maybe others would be interested to know what company you work for please, if you don't mind?

[GrumbleDook]

@Styloid

 

I would honestly recommend you spend a day or so reading the BSF threads ... have a look at the conversations between me and Grommit, look what Broc has posted ...

 

There are those here going through the process at the moment and it is too late for things to change for them ...

 

Again, I would really like to know what your aims are for this event. Are you forming a group to lobby for it to stop or be changed? Are you guaranteeing the presence of MPs, etc who are involved in this and willing to listen / chat with those at the chalk face?

 

I honestly don't think anyone has an issue with those aspects ... they are quite supportive if that is what you want to to do ... it is the cost that sticks in people's throats.

 

If you want to chat more in private then feel free to PM me.