[sims] Combining SIMS servers?

[localzuk]

Is it technically possible to combine SIMS servers onto a single Windows server or VM?

 

Eg. We have 6 schools, all running SIMS. Each one is in its own VM, and there's a bunch of overhead managing 6 servers, 6 SOLUS installs etc...

 

I know we can technically put all 6 databases on a single SQL server, and host all the S drive/SIMSAREAs on a single file server, but what about the document management server?

 

The reason I'm asking is:

 

1. The resources actually used by the smallest schools are tiny but have this massive overhead of having to run a dedicated VM for SIMS for them

2. If we were to uplift SIMS into the cloud (not ideal but just looking at options), fewer VMs = lower costs.

[supportman]

Sims was never designed to be run like that so I doubt it would work. Personally I would wait for Sims 8 or move to something like bromcom.

[localzuk]

Sims was never designed to be run like that so I doubt it would work. Personally I would wait for Sims 8 or move to something like bromcom.

Waiting is not really a great option - as Capita are *so* far behind. We'd be moving to a competitor before waiting for them at this rate.

[robk]

Does moving to Sims hosted help at all? I think that's what we are doing while we wait for Sims 8...

[localzuk]

Does moving to Sims hosted help at all? I think that's what we are doing while we wait for Sims 8...

Super expensive, even compared to hosting each server in an Azure VM.

[Theblacksheep]

Sims was never designed to be run like that so I doubt it would work.

 

Isn't it run like that at LEAs running their own hosted SIMS?

[localzuk]

So, I've had confirmation that you can do this - multiple databases in one SIMS instance, one document server running. The only issue would be Discover being a little more difficult.

[DavidYoung]

So, I've had confirmation that you can do this - multiple databases in one SIMS instance, one document server running. The only issue would be Discover being a little more difficult.

 

This is something we might want to do in the future. Discover is always more difficult, it seems to have issues every time there is an update. The main thing I'd be concerned about is SOLUS 3, do you know if it would be 1 instance of SOLUS and everything would have to be in sync?

[Esteban_Child_of_the_Sun]

We've done this with some of our supported schools, they rent a VM running Windows Server 2016 in the cloud and joined it to their domain (1 domain over all schools) and that 1 VM has everything SIMS related for 3 schools, each SIMS & Discover DB has a prefix of the schools initials and the same is reflected in the Document Management Server. They have been using it like that for over 3 years now with no issues.

[FishCustard]

Document management is the only area that'd need special consideration. Other than that SIMS is just a client-server MSSQL application. All the brains is in stored procs and the client.

[localzuk]

This is something we might want to do in the future. Discover is always more difficult, it seems to have issues every time there is an update. The main thing I'd be concerned about is SOLUS 3, do you know if it would be 1 instance of SOLUS and everything would have to be in sync?

Aye, Solus 3 can manage all of them from 1 server too.

[Esteban_Child_of_the_Sun]

Document Management is easy, the folder structure follows the format :\DOCSTORAGE\\\\

[jinnantonnixx]

Document Management is easy, the folder structure follows the format :\DOCSTORAGE\\\\

 

^^ This.

 

We've had around 100 SIMS databases spread over three or four servers over the years, but only ever needed one DMS. It's fairly straightforward.

[jinnantonnixx]

Be aware that if you want to things with, say, clustering, SIMS makes xpcmdshell calls with the real server name, not the clustered alias. This will cause problems with the DMS.

[CloudGeek]

Sims was never designed to be run like that so I doubt it would work. Personally I would wait for Sims 8 or move to something like bromcom.

 

Yes, exactly. Client-server /thick client applications are 1990s designs and do not lend themselves for multi-tenancy or sharing resources. They were designed for desktop and being fat client require same resources when hosted remotely - hence fake cloud.

 

What is the rational in waiting when all other MIS suppliers are ready with their products for the past 8-10 years! Specially if @localzuk you are reviewing your infrastructure, it is perfect time to consider cloud suppliers.

 

This forum recently had a good number of postings as to how to go about evaluating systems and appear to be happy with their outcome.

[localzuk]

This isn't a thread about why I'd do this, or other suppliers, it is purely a technical question - is it technically possible. My job is to plan for all reasonable possibilities, and us still being on the legacy SIMS system is a reasonable possibility in 2 years time when we're intending to get rid of all on-site servers.

[Banjo]

I might be tempted to create an SQL instance for each school. I run multiple training DB's on the same machine with different Doc folders, with no issues.

[mavhc]

Must be a better solution these days, with containers perhaps. The trend is away from moving everything to 1 server.

[matt40k]

@mavhc Not sure why a MAT (even a big MAT) would cluster the SIMS server? Especially with Hyper-V\VMware etc these days. It's just asking for trouble, unless you sell Microsoft licenses in which case, Enterprise all the way

 

Also, BAHAHAHAHA - Next you'll be saying about Capita supporting SQL Server on linux in a docker container :D

 

(This actually wouldn't be that hard for them to do)

[mavhc]

@mavhc Not sure why a MAT (even a big MAT) would cluster the SIMS server? Especially with Hyper-V\VMware etc these days. It's just asking for trouble, unless you sell Microsoft licenses in which case, Enterprise all the way

 

Also, BAHAHAHAHA - Next you'll be saying about Capita supporting SQL Server on linux in a docker container :D

 

(This actually wouldn't be that hard for them to do)

 

We need new words, I meant server as in the OS, not physical server, probably easiest to just call those computers.

 

Windows has containers now.

[PotNoodleTech]

I believe the LEA has this kind of set up, lots of databases on the one SQL cluster. At least, when something goes wrong it goes wrong for all schools so it must be on the same server. So it can be done! I wouldn't recommend it as if it goes down your whole trust does, and also adding multiple 10GB databases in there really stresses the hardware so unless you are going to spec a gigaquad of ram and all SSD storage performance will be poor.

[Sonic007]

Not sure I've understood entirely but I'm intending on putting both my Infants and Juniors Sims systems which currently reside on seperate VM's onto the one VM.

Users (regardless of if they are on the infants or juniors school) will be able to choose which Sims to load up.

[mavhc]

Not sure I've understood entirely but I'm intending on putting both my Infants and Juniors Sims systems which currently reside on seperate VM's onto the one VM.

Users (regardless of if they are on the infants or juniors school) will be able to choose which Sims to load up.

 

You can have that when they're still on 2 VMs.

 

What's the reason to move to 1?

[glen_j]

Yes it can be done, we had one sims server hosting junior and infant schools sims databases, had a few extra lines in connect.ini to allow you to select the correct school.

[Sonic007]

You can have that when they're still on 2 VMs.

 

What's the reason to move to 1?

 

Just one less VM to have to update and keep track of really.